Jews for Guns
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15-08-2012, 08:17 PM
Jews for Guns
"How many Jews the Nazis would have murdered if most European Jews had guns is impossible to know. But common sense suggests that the number would have been much lower. The Warsaw Ghetto revolt was begun with 10 old pistols and very little ammunition. Later a few hundred pistols and rifles and a few machine guns were smuggled into the ghetto. Himmler told Hitler he would quell the revolt in three days. It took four weeks. Many hundreds of German troops — perhaps a thousand — were killed or wounded."

http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prag..._20120808/
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15-08-2012, 08:23 PM
RE: Jews for Guns
(15-08-2012 08:17 PM)Jeff Wrote:  "How many Jews the Nazis would have murdered if most European Jews had guns is impossible to know. But common sense suggests that the number would have been much lower. The Warsaw Ghetto revolt was begun with 10 old pistols and very little ammunition. Later a few hundred pistols and rifles and a few machine guns were smuggled into the ghetto. Himmler told Hitler he would quell the revolt in three days. It took four weeks. Many hundreds of German troops — perhaps a thousand — were killed or wounded."

http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prag..._20120808/

A gun nut recently told me that Hitler only got into power and did the harm that he did because of German gun controls. I laughed so hard.

You know what the difference would have been? Instead of clearing the ghettoes and sending all the Jews off in trains, the ghettoes would have been shelled into oblivion. Fewer available munitions for the war effort, but they'd still have been dead.
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15-08-2012, 10:26 PM
RE: Jews for Guns
Yep, when a group of people are trying to exterminate your race it's best to not fight back and just go to the ovens peacefully.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Kill as many of them as possible. Go down fighting.

Hitler did two things right away. He took away freedom of the press and confiscated all guns. Any dictator would do this.
Dictators don't want the population armed and will do anything to get to that result.
Do you know anyone who wants this in America?
Hitler claimed it was for the good of Germany.
How did that turn out?

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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16-08-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: Jews for Guns
No matter if Hitler really took all the guns or not, the possession of more guns by the Jews in that area might have helped start fighting against the Nazis earlier and would have helped them.

Nobody should give up the ownership of firearms if it's possible.

-summum ius, summa iniuria.-M. T. Cicero
-I will show you fear in a handful of dust.-T.S. Eliot
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ἡ φύσις οὐδὲν ποιεῖ ἅλματα

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16-08-2012, 10:10 PM
RE: Jews for Guns
You DO realize that the Jews wouldn't have PAID for the guns. Lol.

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16-08-2012, 10:18 PM
RE: Jews for Guns
(15-08-2012 10:26 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Yep, when a group of people are trying to exterminate your race it's best to not fight back and just go to the ovens peacefully.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Wait... were you talking to me? At no point did I say that it is a bad thing to defend yourself or go out fighting.

The point is: this is being used as a defensive argument by people who are against gun controls. If you need to invoke Hitler in your already-lost-cause, you need to pour yourself a big cup of wake-the-fuck-up-coffee.

Drink that coffee, man.
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17-08-2012, 05:18 AM
RE: Jews for Guns
Hey, Science Believer.

This is The Thinking Atheist, not The Thoughtless Anti-Semite.
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17-08-2012, 05:31 AM
RE: Jews for Guns
(17-08-2012 05:18 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Science Believer.

This is The Thinking Atheist, not The Thoughtless Anti-Semite.

Hey, Ghost.

He's making a pointed reference to the other Jeff post.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-08-2012, 06:37 AM
RE: Jews for Guns
Hey, Chas.

I don't give a fuck. I'm sick of all of the casual bigotry on this site as of late. It's not funny. It's not cool. It has to fucking stop. People here are smarter than that. We need to demand more of ourselves.

Sorry, brother. That venom's not aimed at you.
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17-08-2012, 11:04 AM
RE: Jews for Guns
Agree with Ghost on the blatant intolerance lately.

As to the matter at hands, all I can say is this: if only the French, Dutch, Norwegians, Poles, Slavs, etc. had guns and planes and tanks to defend themselves, things may have been different.

Oh wait a second - turns out they did have those things. And the Nazi's rolled right over all of them.

Of all the gun advocacy arguments I've ever seen, this one is probably the saddest and most disturbing. The implication that the Jews failed to defend themselves, the implied commentary that they somehow allowed this to happen and bear some responsibility here, is just disgusting. The fact of the matter is that even in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising the Germans were held back for ~30 days and then they finally came in and murdered just about everyone, exactly as they originally planned to do. The idea that if only civilians had guns they could have fought off the German war machine that was comprised of a professional army with an air force and artillery isn't just a pipe dream, it's complete and total nonsense. The only reason the the Germans didn't just level the Warsaw Ghetto right off was because having to do that would have been an embarrassment. But, you can be assured if this started to be a recurring problem with the Jews they would have treated them the way they treated so many other partisan groups - savagely and without remorse.

It would have been great if more of the Jews were armed and they could have killed more of these bastards when they showed up, but even if they had, the final impact of what the Nazi's did would not have been changed even one marginal bit. Given how they sliced through the armies of all the countries I mentioned above, as well as the Russian and British armies, how anyone can suggest otherwise is beyond me. The mistake Hiltler made was opening up a two front war. But for that (and perhaps declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor), Hitler would have succeeded in enacting his syphilis ridden dreams and conquered Europe. A handful of Jewish civilians with guns was not going to make a dent in that plan. The very notion of it is both preposterous and an insult to all the people who Hilter murdered.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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