Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
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11-01-2012, 09:27 AM
Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
http://inventors.about.com/od/gstartinve...enberg.htm

Quote:The earliest dated printed book known is the "Diamond Sutra", printed in China in 868 CE. However, it is suspected that book printing may have occurred long before this date.
In 1041, movable clay type was first invented in China. Johannes Gutenberg, a goldsmith and businessman from the mining town of Mainz in southern Germany, borrowed money to invent a technology that changed the world of printing. Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press with replaceable/moveable wooden or metal letters in 1436 (completed by 1440). This method of printing can be credited not only for a revolution in the production of books, but also for fostering rapid development in the sciences, arts and religion through the transmission of texts.


Gutenberg Press
The Gutenberg press with its wooden and later metal movable type printing brought down the price of printed materials and made such materials available for the masses. It remained the standard until the 20th century. The Gutenberg printing press developed from the technology of the screw-type wine presses of the Rhine Valley. It was there in 1440 that Johannes Gutenberg created his printing press, a hand press, in which ink was rolled over the raised surfaces of moveable hand-set block letters held within a wooden form and the form was then pressed against a sheet of paper.

Gutenberg Bible
Johannes Gutenberg is also accredited with printing the world's first book using movable type, the 42-line (the number of lines per page) Gutenberg Bible.
During the centuries, many newer printing technologies were developed based on Gutenberg's printing machine e.g. offset printing.


Brief Biography - Johannes Gutenberg
Johannes Gutenberg was a German goldsmith and inventor best known for the Gutenberg press, an innovative printing machine that used movable type. Gutenberg was born between 1394 and 1400 and died in 1468.
In 1438, Gutenberg began a business arrangement with Andreas Dritzehn, who funded his experiments in printing. In 1450, Gutenberg began a second arrangement with German businessman Johannes Fust. Fust lent Gutenberg the money to start a printing business and build a large Gutenberg Press, their printing projects included the now famous Gutenberg Bible. On September 30, 1452, Johann Guttenberg's Bible was published becoming the first book to be published in volume.

Dates of the Books

B.C.E. Old Testament
c. 2166 to c. 1876 Job
c. 1446 to c. 1406 Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
c. 1406 to c. 1050 Joshua, Judges
c. 1050 to c. 931 Ruth, Samuel, Psalms, Song of Solomon, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes
c. 875 Obadiah, Joel
c. 790 Jonah, Amos, Hosea, Isaiah, Micah
c. 732 to c. 726 Nahum, Zephaniah
c. 640 Jeremiah, Lamentations, Habakkuk, Kings, Daniel, Ezekial
c. 586 to c. 538 Haggai, Zechariah
c. 458 Chronicles, Ezra, Esther
c. 444 Nehemiah, Malachi
C.E. New Testament
c. 50 I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians,
c. 53 Galatians
c. 55 Romans, I Corinthians,
c. 57 II Corinthians, James (40 - 60 A.D.)
c. 60 Mark, Luke, John, Colossians, Ephesians, Philippians, Philemon
c. 62 I Timothy, II Timothy, Acts, Titus,
c. 64 I Peter
c. 66 II Peter
c. 68 to 80 Hebrews
c. 90 I John, II John, III John, Jude
c. 95 Revelation



Here we go. This is something I discussed with someone several years ago and I haven't really brough it up since but I figured it'd be a great topic for discussion. Or agreement considering the forum.


If you read the article above about Johannes Gutenberg then you are already aware that he invented the printing press and did so around the year 1440 CE. Today the Bible is the most widely sold book on the planet. It far, far surpasses the next best selling book and is translated into nearly 500 different languages, interepretations, and other versions. We see above that Revelations was completed around 95 CE. So between the year 100 and the year 1440 (1340 years) there was no mass production of the bible. And even in 1440 there were many copies being made. Perhaps by 1500 bible printing as a buisiness was in full swing. So were talking about nearly 1500 years or so of hand writing or hand stamping/screening.

Now, if it is true that you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior to enter the kingdom of heaven then I'd like to know what reason God or Jesus had for allowing those that had never seen a bible before to go to hell. For 1500 years most people probably strolled around having never heard of Jesus Christ. And there really weren't enough missionaries to send to all the remote locations of the world and spread the word by mouth. Why would God punish those for something they had absolutely no control over? They were born, worked, raised families, grew old and died without ever knowing of the Bible. I don't know about you but that there is good enough reason for me to not believe in the Christian god. But this still happens today. Tribes that live on remote islands know of no Jesus Christ. But I'm sure the average Christian will make something up on the fly to justify this or simply claim 'God's will'.

So that brings me to this. I actually asked a Christian about this one time. A good friend of mine who thinks that you can 'pray gay away'. He actually had the nerve to tell me that back then (2-6000 years) ago Earth was all one continent and people could walk everywhere to spread the word. I knew at that point that discussing it further was pointless. But I couldn't help myself. So I explained that with the rate of plate movement we know that the super continent Pangea (and numerous other super continents that broke apart and reformed) was a few hundred million years ago. His reply, "God sped up the continents".

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-Mark Twain
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11-01-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
I believe this question has been asked many times. I would go even further though. What about all of the people born before the rise of Christianity. I mean at least 50,000 years before. Figured you might want to include those into your question.
Christopher Hitchens hit on this one several times.

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11-01-2012, 09:40 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
(11-01-2012 09:37 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I believe this question has been asked many times. I would go even further though. What about all of the people born before the rise of Christianity. I mean at least 50,000 years before. Figured you might want to include those into your question.
Christopher Hitchens hit on this one several times.

Ah. I've actually never read or seen anything by Hitchens. Or Sagan for that matter. Except for Contact which I didn't know was Sagan's until a couple weeks ago.

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11-01-2012, 09:43 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
Got 4 hours?





Watched this bad boy yesterday. I don't know the overlap with NOVA's "buried secrets of the Bible;" they both may be derivative of the same sourcing. But they both conclude through archaeological evidence that the Pentateuch was contrived no earlier than 700 BCE. Tongue

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11-01-2012, 09:51 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
Unfortunately I can't view YT vids from work. And I don't have a computer at home. I coudl watch it on my cell but it'd run up my data like crazy. I'll have borrow my sisters lap top or something.

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11-01-2012, 09:53 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
(11-01-2012 09:51 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Unfortunately I can't view YT vids from work. And I don't have a computer at home. I coudl watch it on my cell but it'd run up my data like crazy. I'll have borrow my sisters lap top or something.

oh man, I don't know how you do it without a pc at home. You are missing out on all kinds of information.

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11-01-2012, 10:01 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
(11-01-2012 09:53 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  
(11-01-2012 09:51 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Unfortunately I can't view YT vids from work. And I don't have a computer at home. I coudl watch it on my cell but it'd run up my data like crazy. I'll have borrow my sisters lap top or something.

oh man, I don't know how you do it without a pc at home. You are missing out on all kinds of information.

I don't have cable either. Can't afford it.

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11-01-2012, 10:05 AM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
(11-01-2012 09:27 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Now, if it is true that you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior to enter the kingdom of heaven then I'd like to know what reason God or Jesus had for allowing those that had never seen a bible before to go to hell. For 1500 years most people probably strolled around having never heard of Jesus Christ. And there really weren't enough missionaries to send to all the remote locations of the world and spread the word by mouth. Why would God punish those for something they had absolutely no control over?

This kind of thing only validates the Christian whose mission is to spread the gospel. You start talking this, all they're hearing is the reason for them to be in your face...

See?!?! That's why I'm here! To spread the Good Word!

They have faith in identity - Christian - that all sins are forgiven in following divine mandate: spreading the Word, thunderbird. If ya wanna do some wing-clipping, "acceptance of Jesus" is also "acceptance of Holy Spirit." Speaking of hell is giving credence to evil - I have yet to meet a Christian that does not feel the moral conflict of postulating such a thing. They get babbling about "but it's for you're own good that I mention hell! I'm trying to save your soul!" Then they're on the ropes - but Jesus did not come to change the law but rather fulfill the law, yes? And they nod like sheep...

Then you go, remember the golden calf? When Moses told YHWH; but these are my people, I will pay for their sins... and YHWH goes, oh, no; Moses, I have a hankering for a condemning!

Holy Spirit is the atheist's best friend; tell you whut. If one refrains from identifying oneself as "atheist with lack of belief" and lets the Christian do the talking, they talk themselves right off the cliff. Heck, if you say nothing, and one approaches you; give 'em the ol' benevolent smile and glassy eyed look and they will think you're some kind of Christian - only not their kind, and their programming takes over - and what do you get? Holy Spirit. When two or more are gathered, there I am; a.k.a. the Christ, a.k.a. Holy Spirit; you can even give 'em my spin on 1John 4:4 - I believe in the Jesus in you! Once you are humanized before the Christian? They shear themselves. Wink

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11-01-2012, 04:40 PM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
Quote:Now, if it is true that you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior to enter the kingdom of heaven then I'd like to know what reason God or Jesus had for allowing those that had never seen a bible before to go to hell. For 1500 years most people probably strolled around having never heard of Jesus Christ. And there really weren't enough missionaries to send to all the remote locations of the world and spread the word by mouth. Why would God punish those for something they had absolutely no control over?

Simple answer: The Christian God is an asshole.

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11-01-2012, 10:32 PM
RE: Johannes Gutenberg and the spread of Christianity.
Now, if it is true that you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior to enter the kingdom of heaven then I'd like to know what reason God or Jesus had for allowing those that had never seen a bible before to go to hell. For 1500 years most people probably strolled around having never heard of Jesus Christ. And there really weren't enough missionaries to send to all the remote locations of the world and spread the word by mouth. Why would God punish those for something they had absolutely no control over? They were born, worked, raised families, grew old and died without ever knowing of the Bible. I don't know about you but that there is good enough reason for me to not believe in the Christian god. But this still happens today. Tribes that live on remote islands know of no Jesus Christ. But I'm sure the average Christian will make something up on the fly to justify this or simply claim 'God's will'.

[/quote]


I agree. Not to mention that many Chinese were able to read and write about then, so a book directed to that crowd would have been more effective instead of wandering illiterate nomads.
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