John Kelly's historical revisionism
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02-11-2017, 08:19 AM
John Kelly's historical revisionism
Everyone talks about how John Kelly is the calm voice of reason in a chaotic White House, but it turns out, he's just as bad with Trump's "many sides" rhetoric. He has said that the civil war was a result of a failure to compromise, despite overwhelming proof of the North doing exactly that several times. Also, I like how the will of the slaves is never taken into account for this. It's almost like they don't count as worthy of compromise in his fucked up revised history.

The only reason people think Kelly isn't as vile as Trump is because he doesn't tweet.
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02-11-2017, 08:24 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
At least he knows the difference between Lincoln and Jackson.
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02-11-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
I took his words to mean that we're heading in that direction again. Our country is divided. Our politicians only vote with the other party on budget matters. The two parties couldn't be further apart. Even among common citizens. If you're a democrat, you think of republicans and uneducated hillbillies. If you're a republican, you think of democrats as lazy safe space needing wimps.

Kelly's words were a warning. If we don't figure this shit out soon, we'll be too far divided to make it.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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02-11-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
(02-11-2017 09:26 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I took his words to mean that we're heading in that direction again. Our country is divided. Our politicians only vote with the other party on budget matters. The two parties couldn't be further apart. Even among common citizens.

...

Kelly's words were a warning. If we don't figure this shit out soon, we'll be too far divided to make it.

Gridlock is a feature, not a bug. Democrats won't be uniting behind Trump.
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02-11-2017, 10:49 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
(02-11-2017 09:26 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I took his words to mean that we're heading in that direction again. Our country is divided. Our politicians only vote with the other party on budget matters. The two parties couldn't be further apart. Even among common citizens. If you're a democrat, you think of republicans and uneducated hillbillies. If you're a republican, you think of democrats as lazy safe space needing wimps.

Kelly's words were a warning. If we don't figure this shit out soon, we'll be too far divided to make it.

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02-11-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
(02-11-2017 09:26 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I took his words to mean that we're heading in that direction again.

Have you noticed that with this administration someone is always having to ‘interpret’ what was said and what was meant? Consider

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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02-11-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
(02-11-2017 10:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(02-11-2017 09:26 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I took his words to mean that we're heading in that direction again.

Have you noticed that with this administration someone is always having to ‘interpret’ what was said and what was meant? Consider

Almost as if...a holy book full of immorality had to be defended...by some priests Tongue
But thats impossible, because *insert your favourite rationalisation for Trump and his administration being complete garbage cans of undesireable human traits*.

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02-11-2017, 11:35 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
(02-11-2017 09:26 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I took his words to mean that ...............................

Strange isn't it? How the words spoken by one man can appear to have an entirely different meaning to a small group of emotionally invested individuals. A meaning that is entirely at odds with what everyone else's interpretation.

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02-11-2017, 11:49 AM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
(02-11-2017 08:19 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Everyone talks about how John Kelly is the calm voice of reason in a chaotic White House, but it turns out, he's just as bad with Trump's "many sides" rhetoric. He has said that the civil war was a result of a failure to compromise, despite overwhelming proof of the North doing exactly that several times. Also, I like how the will of the slaves is never taken into account for this. It's almost like they don't count as worthy of compromise in his fucked up revised history.

The only reason people think Kelly isn't as vile as Trump is because he doesn't tweet.

I am embarrassed that I went to a High School named after Lee.

There is no defense for what Lee defended. I will only say this. Some argue now that. Lee realized he was wrong, much like after we defeated WW2 Germany you don't see anyone there defending anything about Hitler today.

But that is not what Kelly was arguing, he was, as you said, pulling the bullshit fallacy of equivocation.

There is no "compromise" in defending owning other humans. The best one could argue is that Lee realized that after the fact. But that still would not excuse his behavior regardless.

I think Lee's admissions after the fact had more to do with losing than actually realizing he was wrong.

But we also did not murder every German after we defeated the Nazis either. That would be matching genocide with genocide.

It seems to be a clumsy way for Kelly to admit the South was wrong with out flat out admitting the South was wrong.

The right thing to say is, "The South was wrong" and leave it at that. Lee was wrong and that is all one has to say.

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02-11-2017, 05:43 PM
RE: John Kelly's historical revisionism
Is this really on anyone's Outrage-o-Meter? He wasn't submitting a dissertation to committee, it was a one or two line throw away comment, spoken more with (rightly or wrongly) an eye on current day politics rather than defining remarks on the state of antebellum politics. The war could have been avoided by compromise. I say give Kelly the benefit of the doubt, we assume he meant northerners were wrong to not compromise and give in to slave-holders, but maybe he meant in addition that southerners were wrong to not compromise with abolitionists. It's unlikely there could have been a compromise to end slavery, maybe something on the order of compensation for emancipation over some number of years. Something that allowed the south to keep their precious fig leaf of "states rights," imagine some southern states accepting a compensated emancipation plan and others not, that would have been interesting. But something like that would have been preferable to the Civil War.

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