Judges 1
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20-11-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 04:44 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 02:23 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Why shouldn't he have David's wives raped and his baby killed for David's sin?? You're kidding right? You can't call yourself "just" and "loving" and then do that. That is not just or loving.
Have you ever read 2 Samuel 11 and 12?
If so, you may want to reread it.

I have read 2 Samuel 11 and 12 many times. I understand *why* God did what he did to David's wives and baby-- but those passages don't explain how God could do something like that while still calling himself "loving" and "just."
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20-11-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 05:43 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 05:28 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I had to reread 2 Samuel 11 & 12, as it's been a while.

So... David acts like a spoiled rich shit, knocks up a married woman, gets to say "Oops I fucked up," YHWH kills the kid after a week of suffering, and Bathsheba gets to bear him a replacement kid?
That is a loose way of saying it, but yes.
Yeah but... Feels like the baby wasn't of value (which it doesn't according to Leviticus) and Bathsheba was just a tasty morsel for him. It's like David mattered but they didn't.
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20-11-2015, 06:22 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:14 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 05:43 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  That is a loose way of saying it, but yes.
Yeah but... Feels like the baby wasn't of value (which it doesn't according to Leviticus) and Bathsheba was just a tasty morsel for him. It's like David mattered but they didn't.

Basically God hit David where it hurt for sinning--which is fine--except we are talking about the lives and well-being of other people (namely David's wives and baby). So David's wives and baby *who did not sin against God* were punished as the result of David's sin. Just means to do what is morally right/fair. How is what God did morally right or fair? How is that a loving act or an act of kindness?
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20-11-2015, 06:22 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:14 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 05:43 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  That is a loose way of saying it, but yes.
Yeah but... Feels like the baby wasn't of value (which it doesn't according to Leviticus) and Bathsheba was just a tasty morsel for him. It's like David mattered but they didn't.
Where does it say in Leviticus that babies don't have value? Second, Bathsheba was just as guilty.
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20-11-2015, 06:25 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:22 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 06:14 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Yeah but... Feels like the baby wasn't of value (which it doesn't according to Leviticus) and Bathsheba was just a tasty morsel for him. It's like David mattered but they didn't.

Basically God hit David where it hurt for sinning--which is fine--except we are talking about the lives and well-being of other people (namely David's wives and baby). So David's wives and baby *who did not sin against God* were punished as the result of David's sin. Just means to do what is morally right/fair. How is what God did morally right or fair? How is that a loving act or an act of kindness?
What about his wives?
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20-11-2015, 06:27 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:22 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 06:14 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Yeah but... Feels like the baby wasn't of value (which it doesn't according to Leviticus) and Bathsheba was just a tasty morsel for him. It's like David mattered but they didn't.
Where does it say in Leviticus that babies don't matter? Second, Bathsheba was just as guilty.

Well God doesn't like disobedience and the punishment or "curse" as God refers to it is to eat the flesh of your children for disobeying God. And let's not forget God killed all the first born of Egypt in Exodus.
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20-11-2015, 06:27 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:25 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 06:22 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Basically God hit David where it hurt for sinning--which is fine--except we are talking about the lives and well-being of other people (namely David's wives and baby). So David's wives and baby *who did not sin against God* were punished as the result of David's sin. Just means to do what is morally right/fair. How is what God did morally right or fair? How is that a loving act or an act of kindness?
What about his wives?

God had them raped by David's son in front of everyone.
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20-11-2015, 06:32 PM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2015 06:38 PM by jason_delisle.)
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:27 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 06:25 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  What about his wives?

God had them raped by David's son in front of everyone.
Did God really have them raped? Or did God know that David's actions would ultimately result in it?
Example. If I were to say to a child "if you play with the fire you are going to get burned". Does that mean if the child gets burned that it was my doing?
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20-11-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 06:27 PM)jennybee Wrote:  God had them raped by David's son in front of everyone.
Did God really have them raped? Or did God know that David's actions would ultimately result in it?
Example. If I were to say to a child "if you play with the fire you are going to get burned". Does that mean if the child gets burned that it was my doing?

No this is what it would be like:

Parent: Don't play with fire or you will get burned.

Child plays with fire anyway.

Parent gets pissed and lights child's friend on fire to teach child playing with fire a lesson.
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20-11-2015, 07:07 PM
RE: Judges 1
(20-11-2015 06:55 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 06:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Did God really have them raped? Or did God know that David's actions would ultimately result in it?
Example. If I were to say to a child "if you play with the fire you are going to get burned". Does that mean if the child gets burned that it was my doing?

No this is what it would be like:

Parent: Don't play with fire or you will get burned.

Child plays with fire anyway.

Parent gets pissed and lights child's friend on fire to teach child playing with fire a lesson.
I don't agree. I look at God to be more of a very strict yet loving parent who believes in the "school of hard knocks". Rather a vengeful psychopath.
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