Judging people
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09-07-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 02:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:36 PM)Dom Wrote:  Any conclusions?

I used to deny it, but I really think I became an atheist because deep down I hated god. I'm conflicted about that. Since I always have maintained I came to atheism based on rational thought processes. Now I feel those thoughts were tainted.

I am of the opinion that hating the God character is rational, as his character, while not real in itself, affects reality greatly. You can resent it for that.


I know I do.

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09-07-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 02:52 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Consider Interesting. So you feel that your emotions may have played a role in your rationale for not believing? Have you since tried to come at the question from an objective and emotionless viewpoint?

Yes! And I can't separate it -- the two are completely entwined and I can't untangle them.

I get the same feelings from time to time because I can't help but shake the idea that I didn't come to the conclusion of "I don't believe in god" on my own. I reached that conclusion a day after a conversation with an atheist friend of mine who challenged my beliefs.

Since then, I have often wondered if I didn't just latch on to someone else's beliefs?

Then someone starts talking about god and my immediate reaction is "How did you even begin to reach that conclusion?" So, I'm not sure if my realization of disbelief was initially genuine, but my natural reaction now is to treat the concept of god like I'd treat the concept of BigFoot or the Loch Ness monster or Alien abductions, etc.

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09-07-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Judging people
You either believe or you don't. Hard to get much further than that really. Ask yourself the question and then see what the initial reaction is. Then ask why. Then...well...then I don't know what you do because I keep doing those 2 steps over and over again.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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09-07-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 02:53 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I used to deny it, but I really think I became an atheist because deep down I hated god. I'm conflicted about that. Since I always have maintained I came to atheism based on rational thought processes. Now I feel those thoughts were tainted.

I am of the opinion that hating the God character is rational, as his character, while not real in itself, affects reality greatly. You can resent it for that.


I know I do.

Yes, I get that...the idea of god, set up in the bible is deplorable. Really he's wicked.

What I'm saying -- it's not at all because of what's written in the bible.

I've heard theists ask "why do you hate god -- what happened in your life that made you that way." I've always heavily denied that. I've always maintained the opposite was true.

It's like feeling the idea of god was taken from me so that I couldn't believe. ???

I'm not sure...I can't articulate it right.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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09-07-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 02:56 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:52 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Yes! And I can't separate it -- the two are completely entwined and I can't untangle them.

I get the same feelings from time to time because I can't help but shake the idea that I didn't come to the conclusion of "I don't believe in god" on my own. I reached that conclusion a day after a conversation with an atheist friend of mine who challenged my beliefs.

Since then, I have often wondered if I didn't just latch on to someone else's beliefs?

Then someone starts talking about god and my immediate reaction is "How did you even begin to reach that conclusion?" So, I'm not sure if my realization of disbelief was initially genuine, but my natural reaction now is to treat the concept of god like I'd treat the concept of BigFoot or the Loch Ness monster or Alien abductions, etc.

That is kinda part of it -- or maybe the latter half.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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09-07-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:53 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I am of the opinion that hating the God character is rational, as his character, while not real in itself, affects reality greatly. You can resent it for that.


I know I do.

Yes, I get that...the idea of god, set up in the bible is deplorable. Really he's wicked.

What I'm saying -- it's not at all because of what's written in the bible.

I've heard theists ask "why do you hate god -- what happened in your life that made you that way." I've always heavily denied that. I've always maintained the opposite was true.

It's like feeling the idea of god was taken from me so that I couldn't believe. ???

I'm not sure...I can't articulate it right.

I understand perfectly. I have asked myself the same thing. I stopped believing two years after the abuse. So it didn't drive me off, I don't think. And from age 6 (school age) to age 10 I went to church all the time and I believed fervently.

When I read about all the abuse in the old testament, that's when I said to myself that I was glad it was just a stupid old tale.

Of course that sort of thing happened anyway, and people still abuse each other en masse. But back then it seemed to settle the matter for me.

Be that as it may, there is absolutely no belief here, not the tiniest doubt. And that is based on rationality.

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09-07-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Yes, I get that...the idea of god, set up in the bible is deplorable. Really he's wicked.

What I'm saying -- it's not at all because of what's written in the bible.

I've heard theists ask "why do you hate god -- what happened in your life that made you that way." I've always heavily denied that. I've always maintained the opposite was true.

It's like feeling the idea of god was taken from me so that I couldn't believe. ???

I'm not sure...I can't articulate it right.

I understand perfectly. I have asked myself the same thing. I stopped believing two years after the abuse. So it didn't drive me off, I don't think. And from age 6 (school age) to age 10 I went to church all the time and I believed fervently.

When I read about all the abuse in the old testament, that's when I said to myself that I was glad it was just a stupid old tale.

Of course that sort of thing happened anyway, and people still abuse each other en masse. But back then it seemed to settle the matter for me.

Be that as it may, there is absolutely no belief here, not the tiniest doubt. And that is based on rationality.

Actually, it's more likely that the abuse drove me to church. The abuse was from age 4 to age 8, the church phase from age 6 to age 10. there was no church influence on my childhood other than what I chose to have.

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09-07-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 02:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I tend to look at the whole person (online in a forum it's admittedly hard -- but I can search past posts) so I do tend to be forgiving of people who I think, "oh my that was harsh." because I can look at the larger picture and might just prefer to assume someone is having a bad day -- because yes I can't see them.

same here. I try to look at the whole of my experience with that person. We all have bad days, we all have experiences that shape us and we all have opinions. I try not to judge others on one event- especially when you have seen (or read) that they are not usually like that.

And I find in my experience that the strongest relationships involve looking at the whole person. Imagine how many divorces and wars we would have if no one couldn't ever get past one bad event? But maybe that is just a maturity thing? I don't know.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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09-07-2013, 03:35 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:53 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I am of the opinion that hating the God character is rational, as his character, while not real in itself, affects reality greatly. You can resent it for that.


I know I do.

Yes, I get that...the idea of god, set up in the bible is deplorable. Really he's wicked.

What I'm saying -- it's not at all because of what's written in the bible.

I've heard theists ask "why do you hate god -- what happened in your life that made you that way." I've always heavily denied that. I've always maintained the opposite was true.

It's like feeling the idea of god was taken from me so that I couldn't believe. ???

I'm not sure...I can't articulate it right.

The fact that you can recognise it as a partially emotional choice gives you more control over it and even if the reason you turn from God was anger at him it does not make the concept any more true. Sometimes I think we try to hard to take the emotion out of deconversion simply because the theists claim "Oh, you're just angry at God" as a dismissal. Damn right I'm angry at that fucker, so angry in fact that even if tomorrow I had total proof that Yahweh was real and exactly as he is portrayed in the Bible I would not worship him, he does not deserve anything but condemnation.

Emotions are not a logical argument for or against the existence of God but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have them. Being an Atheist does not mean you have to become a purely logic driven automaton, you a member of an evolved and evolving animal species for whom emotions, both good and bad, are part of who we are and to try and divorce ourselves from that is folly. Anyone who has come to know you , even as incompletely as one can simply over an internet forum, must stand in awe of what all you have overcome and the good you have done in spite of it. If anger at a supposedly loving God who failed his most basic duty to you is what started you down the road into who you are today then it can't be a bad thing.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-07-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  I understand perfectly. I have asked myself the same thing. I stopped believing two years after the abuse. So it didn't drive me off, I don't think. And from age 6 (school age) to age 10 I went to church all the time and I believed fervently.

When I read about all the abuse in the old testament, that's when I said to myself that I was glad it was just a stupid old tale.

Of course that sort of thing happened anyway, and people still abuse each other en masse. But back then it seemed to settle the matter for me.

Be that as it may, there is absolutely no belief here, not the tiniest doubt. And that is based on rationality.

Actually, it's more likely that the abuse drove me to church. The abuse was from age 4 to age 8, the church phase from age 6 to age 10. there was no church influence on my childhood other than what I chose to have.

Yea...my abuse was different. I tried to pm you, but it said your box was full.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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