Judging people
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09-07-2013, 03:58 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:36 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  Actually, it's more likely that the abuse drove me to church. The abuse was from age 4 to age 8, the church phase from age 6 to age 10. there was no church influence on my childhood other than what I chose to have.

Yea...my abuse was different. I tried to pm you, but it said your box was full.

Really? I thought I deleted most everything yesterday. Going to check.

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09-07-2013, 04:00 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:36 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Yea...my abuse was different. I tried to pm you, but it said your box was full.

Really? I thought I deleted most everything yesterday. Going to check.

I deleted the rest and there is not a single message in there. But it still says it's full. maybe you can try and send again and we'll see if it gets through?

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09-07-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 03:35 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Yes, I get that...the idea of god, set up in the bible is deplorable. Really he's wicked.

What I'm saying -- it's not at all because of what's written in the bible.

I've heard theists ask "why do you hate god -- what happened in your life that made you that way." I've always heavily denied that. I've always maintained the opposite was true.

It's like feeling the idea of god was taken from me so that I couldn't believe. ???

I'm not sure...I can't articulate it right.

The fact that you can recognise it as a partially emotional choice gives you more control over it and even if the reason you turn from God was anger at him it does not make the concept any more true. Sometimes I think we try to hard to take the emotion out of deconversion simply because the theists claim "Oh, you're just angry at God" as a dismissal. Damn right I'm angry at that fucker, so angry in fact that even if tomorrow I had total proof that Yahweh was real and exactly as he is portrayed in the Bible I would not worship him, he does not deserve anything but condemnation.

Emotions are not a logical argument for or against the existence of God but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have them. Being an Atheist does not mean you have to become a purely logic driven automaton, you a member of an evolved and evolving animal species for whom emotions, both good and bad, are part of who we are and to try and divorce ourselves from that is folly. Anyone who has come to know you , even as incompletely as one can simply over an internet forum, must stand in awe of what all you have overcome and the good you have done in spite of it. If anger at a supposedly loving God who failed his most basic duty to you is what started you down the road into who you are today then it can't be a bad thing.

Ok Rev-- you made me cry (in a good way). Maybe it's good that Dom's pm box is full -- I wasn't going to share this...but what the hell. I've never told anyone about this part.

My abuser (my father) 'pretended' to have god talk through him to validate my continued abuse. He (as god) told me that if I ever told anyone I would burn in hell -- it was a special covenant. He would also pretend to be the devil...to I guess frighten me and solidify my "faith".

He didn't abuse as 'god' but used it only to validate it was ok. I believed it as stupid as it sounded I believed it.

So my disbelief came from a weird place. I didn't hate god for not protecting me...I hated my father for playing god games with my head.

And I get the fact he died could be construed as a confirmation bias that god punished him.

But I think this why I initially really stopped believing. Maybe also why I continued to struggle with the belief.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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09-07-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 04:00 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Really? I thought I deleted most everything yesterday. Going to check.

I deleted the rest and there is not a single message in there. But it still says it's full. maybe you can try and send again and we'll see if it gets through?

It's ok I mean I'll try -- but I posted a little about it in this thread...

If its a problem I'll edit it out.


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09-07-2013, 04:11 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 04:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:35 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The fact that you can recognise it as a partially emotional choice gives you more control over it and even if the reason you turn from God was anger at him it does not make the concept any more true. Sometimes I think we try to hard to take the emotion out of deconversion simply because the theists claim "Oh, you're just angry at God" as a dismissal. Damn right I'm angry at that fucker, so angry in fact that even if tomorrow I had total proof that Yahweh was real and exactly as he is portrayed in the Bible I would not worship him, he does not deserve anything but condemnation.

Emotions are not a logical argument for or against the existence of God but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have them. Being an Atheist does not mean you have to become a purely logic driven automaton, you a member of an evolved and evolving animal species for whom emotions, both good and bad, are part of who we are and to try and divorce ourselves from that is folly. Anyone who has come to know you , even as incompletely as one can simply over an internet forum, must stand in awe of what all you have overcome and the good you have done in spite of it. If anger at a supposedly loving God who failed his most basic duty to you is what started you down the road into who you are today then it can't be a bad thing.

Ok Rev-- you made me cry (in a good way). Maybe it's good that Dom's pm box is full -- I wasn't going to share this...but what the hell. I've never told anyone about this part.

My abuser (my father) 'pretended' to have god talk through him to validate my continued abuse. He (as god) told me that if I ever told anyone I would burn in hell -- it was a special covenant. He would also pretend to be the devil...to I guess frighten me and solidify my "faith".

He didn't abuse as 'god' but used it only to validate it was ok. I believed it as stupid as it sounded I believed it.

So my disbelief came from a weird place. I didn't hate god for not protecting me...I hated my father for playing god games with my head.

And I get the fact he died could be construed as a confirmation bias that god punished him.

But I think this why I initially really stopped believing. Maybe also why I continued to struggle with the belief.

Wow. Just wow!
And I thought mine played head games with me!
I think this is good, that you were able to put it here.
I will ask the mods to move this into the support section.

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09-07-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: Judging people
Yea probably a good idea.


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09-07-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: Judging people
THE THREAD HAS BEEN MOVED TO PERSONAL ISSUES AND SUPPORT. DUE TO THE NATURE OF THIS BOARD, PLEASE BE CONSCIENTIOUS OF YOUR FURTHER POSTINGS

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09-07-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: Judging people
Ok , so, mom, do you remember everything? Because I still have a couple of blacked out spots. I remember most, but not all. I assume what I don't remember yet must be the worst part...

I think it is so great that you are speaking out. When you do that, it loses it's grip, it's power.

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09-07-2013, 04:59 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 04:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 03:35 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The fact that you can recognise it as a partially emotional choice gives you more control over it and even if the reason you turn from God was anger at him it does not make the concept any more true. Sometimes I think we try to hard to take the emotion out of deconversion simply because the theists claim "Oh, you're just angry at God" as a dismissal. Damn right I'm angry at that fucker, so angry in fact that even if tomorrow I had total proof that Yahweh was real and exactly as he is portrayed in the Bible I would not worship him, he does not deserve anything but condemnation.

Emotions are not a logical argument for or against the existence of God but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have them. Being an Atheist does not mean you have to become a purely logic driven automaton, you a member of an evolved and evolving animal species for whom emotions, both good and bad, are part of who we are and to try and divorce ourselves from that is folly. Anyone who has come to know you , even as incompletely as one can simply over an internet forum, must stand in awe of what all you have overcome and the good you have done in spite of it. If anger at a supposedly loving God who failed his most basic duty to you is what started you down the road into who you are today then it can't be a bad thing.

Ok Rev-- you made me cry (in a good way). Maybe it's good that Dom's pm box is full -- I wasn't going to share this...but what the hell. I've never told anyone about this part.

My abuser (my father) 'pretended' to have god talk through him to validate my continued abuse. He (as god) told me that if I ever told anyone I would burn in hell -- it was a special covenant. He would also pretend to be the devil...to I guess frighten me and solidify my "faith".

He didn't abuse as 'god' but used it only to validate it was ok. I believed it as stupid as it sounded I believed it.

So my disbelief came from a weird place. I didn't hate god for not protecting me...I hated my father for playing god games with my head.

And I get the fact he died could be construed as a confirmation bias that god punished him.

But I think this why I initially really stopped believing. Maybe also why I continued to struggle with the belief.

I'm glad it touched you in a good way I spent a good while deciding how to phrase it since it was dealing with a sensitive subject, how sensitive I was not aware until now. I do have to say the more I learn about you the more in awe of your good nature I am. You have every right to be bitter and mean and hostile to a world that has dealt you some lousy cards but you're not and thats amazing. It's been rough around here recently and a lot of feelings hurt and toes stepped on but we are still a family and family looks out for it's own. You ever need anything, even just someone to talk to or a shoulder to cry on I'm there.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-07-2013, 05:03 PM
RE: Judging people
(09-07-2013 04:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 04:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Ok Rev-- you made me cry (in a good way). Maybe it's good that Dom's pm box is full -- I wasn't going to share this...but what the hell. I've never told anyone about this part.

My abuser (my father) 'pretended' to have god talk through him to validate my continued abuse. He (as god) told me that if I ever told anyone I would burn in hell -- it was a special covenant. He would also pretend to be the devil...to I guess frighten me and solidify my "faith".

He didn't abuse as 'god' but used it only to validate it was ok. I believed it as stupid as it sounded I believed it.

So my disbelief came from a weird place. I didn't hate god for not protecting me...I hated my father for playing god games with my head.

And I get the fact he died could be construed as a confirmation bias that god punished him.

But I think this why I initially really stopped believing. Maybe also why I continued to struggle with the belief.

I'm glad it touched you in a good way I spent a good while deciding how to phrase it since it was dealing with a sensitive subject, how sensitive I was not aware until now. I do have to say the more I learn about you the more in awe of your good nature I am. You have every right to be bitter and mean and hostile to a world that has dealt you some lousy cards but you're not and thats amazing. It's been rough around here recently and a lot of feelings hurt and toes stepped on but we are still a family and family looks out for it's own. You ever need anything, even just someone to talk to or a shoulder to cry on I'm there.

Ditto. I hope you are ok now. if you have to go and cry, do it, it's good to release all that. Hug

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