Just a friendly reminder
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03-10-2012, 01:37 AM
Just a friendly reminder
of how much you don't matter.
You are but one person among 7billion who will live for roughly 0.00045% of the time man has lived on the Earth OR 1.98^(-8)% of the time the Earth has existed.

You live on a planet that is 1 of 4 inner planets, or 1 of 8 full sized planets in our solar system. There are another 5 dwarf planets.
Jupiter, the largest planet in our solar system, is 317.8 times the size of Earth. And 2.5 times roughly the mass of all the other planets combined.
The sun is then 10x the distance across then that of Jupiter.
If you are not feeling very insignificant yet, just wait.

All the planets, all the asteroids and comets and dwarf planets that orbit our sun as you know is called the Solar System. And you are a very very small part of it. Keep that in mind for the next parts.

Our star that we call the Sun is but one of about 40 stars that make up what we call "The Interstellar Neighborhood". These are the stars closets to us.
Sirius, the brightest star in our sky, is roughly twice that the size of the Sun.
Aldebaran, a red giant, is then roughly 20times the size of Sirius.

Our Interstellar Neighborhood is then but a mere speck in our galaxy that we call, "The Milky Way".

[Image: wearehere.jpg]

The Milky Way contains a rough estimate of around 200-400 billion stars.

Simply knowing this you get a feeling of how insignificant we humans, let alone us as individuals, truly are in the grand scheme of things. One also only needs a simple understanding of probability to get that we are not the only life forms in existence currently let alone ever in the existence of time.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! The fun continues. Just when you are feeling very..very...VERY small right now, you discover that we are but only half way.
You see, while the Milky Way galaxy is of a respectable size, it's not alone.

May I introduce you to our neighbors, an area we like to call our "Local Galactic Group". Comprised mainly of the Milky Way and our slightly larger neighbor, Andromeda Galaxy there is also several outlying dwarf stars and several small galaxies (ahh like 20 or 30).
But lets concentrate on Andromeda for a second considering some time in the future this is the galaxy that we, the Milky Way, will collide with. Remember how insignificant you felt when we were talking about the Milky Way? well yes, double it.

How, lets make things drastically bigger shall we. Because while our Local Galactic Group may seem rather large it is only but two major galaxies in what we like to call "The Virgo Supercluster". There really is no words to describe how large this is, so I'll just put up a picture instead. Note, our Local Galactic Group are those dots in the center.

[Image: Virgosupercluster_atlasoftheuniverse.gif]

So then of course, everything belongs to a larger group and the Virgo Supercluster is no exception. So welcome to our local neighborhood of superclusters.

[Image: superclustersA+.jpg]

So at this point I bet you're feeling pretty fucking small right now huh.
Well, just to fuck with you that little bit more, I present to you the observable universe.

[Image: observable-universe-630x630.png]

(Our supercluster group is that tiny spec in the middle)

Note: That is just what we have seen, not all that is out there. If the pattern continues what we can see is probably but another mere speck of what is actually all out there.
(going to go off on a bit of tangent here) This is why I don't subscribe to the "big bang" or whatever else scientists come up with to explain the creation of the universe. How can we know? How can we know when we can see likely only but a mere speck of everything.
Who's to say that we are not but a part of some universe galaxy that belongs to a local universe galaxy neighborhood etc..
I'm not saying that the big bang theory is wrong, but I'm saying that we cannot say that "this is the reason for all stuff in the universe" when we cannot even see the whole universe. The Big Bang may work for the OBSERVABLE universe, but I think to say that "this explains how all things came to be" is the exact same as saying "God created all things".

I think science is taking the wrong road here. Religion came about because people did not know the answers to questions, they wanted things explained such as "where did everything come from" and so religion filled that void. I think that is what science is doing currently. People still have that human instinct to want to know where everything came from whether they believe in God or not, and so I think science is catering to that. Atheists and theists alike. And so effectively what I'm saying is that we are simply just going to replace one falsehood for another falsehood, well in fact I am saying that is exactly what has happened already.
Science should stay the fuck away from the question of "where did everything come from" simply because we cannot and will never know.
I dunno, whatever, carry on.

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03-10-2012, 01:57 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
Way to make me feel special Mr. Muffs.

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03-10-2012, 02:03 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
(03-10-2012 01:37 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I think science is taking the wrong road here. Religion came about because people did not know the answers to questions, they wanted things explained such as "where did everything come from" and so religion filled that void. I think that is what science is doing currently. People still have that human instinct to want to know where everything came from whether they believe in God or not, and so I think science is catering to that. Atheists and theists alike. And so effectively what I'm saying is that we are simply just going to replace one falsehood for another falsehood, well in fact I am saying that is exactly what has happened already.
Science should stay the fuck away from the question of "where did everything come from" simply because we cannot and will never know.
I dunno, whatever, carry on.

Science isn't necessarily trying to explain the "creation of the universe". Science has very good reasons to think a Big Bang happened. There was data, and they used it. If that happens to explain something else, when there is data to explain something else, then it will.
Your multiverse could be true, and the Big Bang could also be true. There are apparently some limits on how far we will ever see secondary to the speed of light. However the BIG problem right now, is that there are other really big things right here that are unexplained. MOST of this universe, right here, right now, is unknown. Dark Energy, and Dark Matter comprise. 95% of whatever constitutes the universe is invisible to us. We don't know what almost the entirety of this universe is all about.

http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/foc...rk-energy/

Love those graphics BTW.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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03-10-2012, 02:13 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
Therefore...

God dun it.

Feel better now?

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03-10-2012, 03:42 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
(03-10-2012 02:03 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 01:37 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I think science is taking the wrong road here. Religion came about because people did not know the answers to questions, they wanted things explained such as "where did everything come from" and so religion filled that void. I think that is what science is doing currently. People still have that human instinct to want to know where everything came from whether they believe in God or not, and so I think science is catering to that. Atheists and theists alike. And so effectively what I'm saying is that we are simply just going to replace one falsehood for another falsehood, well in fact I am saying that is exactly what has happened already.
Science should stay the fuck away from the question of "where did everything come from" simply because we cannot and will never know.
I dunno, whatever, carry on.

Science isn't necessarily trying to explain the "creation of the universe". Science has very good reasons to think a Big Bang happened. There was data, and they used it. If that happens to explain something else, when there is data to explain something else, then it will.
Your multiverse could be true, and the Big Bang could also be true. There are apparently some limits on how far we will ever see secondary to the speed of light. However the BIG problem right now, is that there are other really big things right here that are unexplained. MOST of this universe, right here, right now, is unknown. Dark Energy, and Dark Matter comprise. 95% of whatever constitutes the universe is invisible to us. We don't know what almost the entirety of this universe is all about.

http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/foc...rk-energy/

Love those graphics BTW.

I'm not saying multiverse, that is an entirely different concept, I'm just saying that we can't see the whole picture. If you've ever played strategy games where like you start small and like 95% of the map is blacked out and you can't see what's there until you scout it out, that's what I'm saying.
Like right now I can look out and I can see nearby stars, I can see other planets (at certain times) but what I can see is only stars in our milky way. So if I was to base my knowledge of the universe on this then I wouldn't even recognize that there is 200billion stars in our galaxy let alone another galaxy right next door let alone everything else.
This is what I mean, we are basing knowledge (how time began (big bang)) on only a possible small fraction of reality.
The current see-able universe could be just part of a larger cluster which in turn is part of a larger cluster etc.. No multiverse, just the same as how the Virgo Cluster is part of the Virgo Supercluster. Obviously it has to end somewhere but when you think about how small we are in comparison to how big the known universe is it isn't that much of a step to imagine the known universe as the same smallness in the grand scheme of everything-everything.

I'm not saying the Big Bang never happened, I accept that it likely happened, especially if the evidence is there. It very well could explain how everything in the known universe came to be, but who's to say the same thing hasn't happened 100trillion light years in that direction or 20trillion light years in the other direction or something completely different happened 946trillion light years in that direction.

I think it's foolish to hold things like the Big Bang in such.. 'awe', the golden bullet to the question sort of thing, when quite frankly, we don't know jack shit.
But like I say, it's a human instinct and so we.. "long" for it. So when we hear things like the big bang we put it up on this platform and idolize it.

What you are talking about with dark energy/matter is irrelevant. They're two different questions. The question I'm focusing on is the question on how things came to be, where things began etc.. Where as what you are saying is "explain what this is". Your question is the one we SHOULD be focusing on, but because of human nature it isn't, it's my question.

And I like em too, got a whole heap of them. Love this space shit, if I was going to be a businessmen or lawyer, I'd be be an astronomer. When I'm rich I'll build an observatory and a set of satellite arrays. Can do it properly as a hobby, rather then be confined to books and internet like now.

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03-10-2012, 06:04 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
Kinda ridiculous, coming from a narcissistic fuck like you. Big Grin

And no, science shouldn't stay the fuck away from any questions. People are going to ask questions, and whenever the scientific method can be applied, it should be applied. BBT did not come from questioning origins so much as running the entropy equations backwards. Unless you think thermodynamics is beyond the range of science... Dodgy

Wanker. Big Grin

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03-10-2012, 06:31 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
(03-10-2012 06:04 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Kinda ridiculous, coming from a narcissistic fuck like you. Big Grin

And no, science shouldn't stay the fuck away from any questions. People are going to ask questions, and whenever the scientific method can be applied, it should be applied. BBT did not come from questioning origins so much as running the entropy equations backwards. Unless you think thermodynamics is beyond the range of science... Dodgy

Wanker. Big Grin

Oh Johnny, you misunderstand me. I'm suggesting that science is trying to fill a void where religion left off (where did it all come from) and considering we cannot answer that question I don't think we should try because then you just end up replacing one falsehood for another.
I'm saying instead of BBT being where everything came from it should be "BBT is how our known universe came to be" rather then "the universe"

As for the narcissism, well I think this backs it up if anything. I mean are so tiny and pointless in the grand scheme of things that all that one can really do in the end is make said person life as good as possible.
I, as a narcissistic, will do that by pleasing myself by literally rolling in a giant pile of money, while others will take the more conservative approach and have a family.

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03-10-2012, 06:44 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
(03-10-2012 06:31 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 06:04 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Kinda ridiculous, coming from a narcissistic fuck like you. Big Grin

And no, science shouldn't stay the fuck away from any questions. People are going to ask questions, and whenever the scientific method can be applied, it should be applied. BBT did not come from questioning origins so much as running the entropy equations backwards. Unless you think thermodynamics is beyond the range of science... Dodgy

Wanker. Big Grin

Oh Johnny, you misunderstand me. I'm suggesting that science is trying to fill a void where religion left off (where did it all come from) and considering we cannot answer that question I don't think we should try because then you just end up replacing one falsehood for another.
I'm saying instead of BBT being where everything came from it should be "BBT is how our known universe came to be" rather then "the universe"

As for the narcissism, well I think this backs it up if anything. I mean are so tiny and pointless in the grand scheme of things that all that one can really do in the end is make said person life as good as possible.
I, as a narcissistic, will do that by pleasing myself by literally rolling in a giant pile of money, while others will take the more conservative approach and have a family.

You're reading too much into "the universe". Cosmologists mean exactly what you want them to mean.

You are right that some people misinterpret current scientific knowledge as being absolute truth, but that is human nature.

Good post.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-10-2012, 08:33 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
"Science should stay the fuck away from the question of "where did everything come from" simply because we cannot and will never know. "

That is utter nonsense. One of the basic tenets of science is we determine how things work through observations. A MOUNTAIN of evidence shows us that although we certainly do not know everything yet, information is not destroyed. We certainly can and will get better at understanding and gathering that information, and your above statement completely destroys any credibility your argument has.
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04-10-2012, 10:07 AM
RE: Just a friendly reminder
(03-10-2012 06:31 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I, as a narcissistic, will do that by pleasing myself by literally rolling in a giant pile of money, while others will take the more conservative approach and have a family.
Are you rolling in a giant pile of money yet? Laughat

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