Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
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01-12-2014, 08:05 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
I haven't listened to that particular podcast in a while, from what I remember the dude had a lot of peculiar ideas and odd definitions of things that weren't part of any denomination I knew of, he basically created his own version of god and convinced himself of his own truth. Rolleyes

I used to be Pentecostal too, and I've had my fill of these clowns pulling stuff out of their ass and convincing other people of their "spirit-led" truth. I came to the conclusion that they should be getting psychological help, not creating a fantasy religious world for them to be king of.

Too often these babbling idiots were the leaders in the church, one of several factors that eventually caused me to abandon loony world in favor of sanity.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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01-12-2014, 08:19 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2014 08:22 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  Oh the promises... the prayers, the phone calls... nothing that church did ever really helped me deal with my condition or the fact that my life was being turned upside down because of it.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  This is the best God can do? Before I just had trouble sleeping, and I'd sometimes snap at people for asking me things but now I'm hurting animals and crying under pool tables? Umm... these aren't the changes the church promised.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  Finally, this curse of sickness will be healed and I will have a place with God.
Funny, two weeks after baptism I found myself swallowing an entire bottle of Seroquel and Ativan and before passing out, I nearly caught my apartment on fire when I decided it was a good idea to burn my old journal of dreams in a hibachi grill in my kitchen.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  when I woke up a few days later strapped to a bed I realized that Jesus had failed me.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  When I first was diagnosed, I listened to the sweet old lady who said God could fix me and I asked... I prayed... I sincerely asked Jesus to come down and guide me. I was ready for faith. I embraced it, and it resulted in the death of my cat and nearly myself.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  God must REALLY want me dead...

There are a couple of thoughts I have here.

Firstly bipolar disorder is a problem some people have. I don't think there is a cure, but I think it can be managed somewhat. I is sad to hear you go into a "dark" place such that you hurting loved animals and burning down your residency. So I think your bipolar issues would benefit from being addressed. Perhaps a doctor and/or psychiatrist, perhaps medication, perhaps a support group? I think you probably have some special issues that require some special and focused attention.

Secondly I think you take it that your problems are someone else's fault. That you expect that you can pray to a god or Jesus and then your recovery becomes their responsibility, your failures become their failures.
Whoever you go to for help they are just there to assist you, to support you. You will not improve if you think it is someone else's responsibility. The responsibility is entirely yours. There is only so much others can do for you. You need to stand up and hold yourself accountable for your own actions. Try and find people that can help, people you can trust and people that can bring out the best in you. But realise that unless you are ready to take accountability, you will not find anyone that can help you.
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01-12-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 07:10 PM)etbonney Wrote:  I get the idea people are focusing on the wrong part of the story...

Besides, I feel horrible over the kitty. It took me years to feel capable of getting another one. Well, I guess I deserve the wtf comments. No excuse ever hurting a cat...

It's called bipolar I, med adjustments, and a bunch of fundies fucking with your head. Bipolar I can be very difficult to manage (saying that for the benefit of others - you already know this, etbonney, from personal experience). It takes vigilance with your meds and a good working partnership with your psych team.

I've been there - those darkest moments crying out for help. The part that pisses me off the most is the inference that it's all my fault/god's test and I'm failing/etc. Sometimes it's consequences of our actions. Sometimes shit happens - one of the freeing parts of my atheism is that I no longer feel guilty for circumstances that are out if my control.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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01-12-2014, 09:36 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  ..A bucket ton of heart felt stuff...

~ Ron

So, firstly,....

Hug

Secondly?

Hug

Thirdly?

As Nurse above posted. You're being f@cked with by your own brain. I cannot imagine even some of the hell that is.

As myself only being words on a screen to yourself? All I can offer, much like any one else here, is an electronic shoulder for you as some support.

As others have said, please seek help from medical folks who have the knowledge and skills to help you with your things.

Much cheers to all.
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01-12-2014, 09:42 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
I would like to invite Jesus to fuck off.
Seriously, if I never had to hear about\from him or his followers again, I would be perfectly happy.
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01-12-2014, 09:59 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
Jesus is welcome to enter my life but I'm gonna respond by entering his ifyaknowwhatImean

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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02-12-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  I moved back home for awhile, went to school, gave up the drugs (bipolar drugs... not cocaine... HHHAAAAHHA) and now own my own house, have a great career and fell in love with another adorable cat. (I promise, the only time I "torture" this cat is when I am trying to take her to the vet). Sure I have a bad back that gives me all sort of grief (I'm fat, and love video games a little too much... nobody is perfect) but in the end, it wasn't Jesus that turned my life around. At least not for the better...



Thanks guys! I appreciate the ability to babble here. Take care every one and Happy Holidays!

~ Ron

Ron- it sounds like you got things turned around in a positive way. I am happy for you. I know its not easy.

My WTF comment was about the cat but also about how one of the worst guests Seth has had really got under your skin. In later podcasts Seth talks about why he gave him so much leeway. But I will say that I was a bit worried since this one guy stirred up so much emotion in you.

I hope you are keeping up with a great medical team and life continues to work out well for you. And I hope you continue to post, I like reading your story.

Bows.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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02-12-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  I have always been ignorant of religion. My mother says I'm catholic, but the moment I first saw Jesus nailed to the cross, I threw up a little. I knew then I wasn't catholic. As for my father's side of the family, Presbyterians put me to sleep so what little time I spent there didn't amount to much other then nap time. I used this time to make up for the fact that I'd stay up all night on saturday trying to save Princess Peach until my fingers turned blue.

I can actually relate to this somewhat. I remember filling out a form for scout camp one summer, and one of the questions was 'religious affiliation.' I was at a total loss-hadn't ever really thought about it I suppose (having only been to church a handful of times). I remember asking my mom what religion we were. Her answer: I don't know... put Presbyterian. That's what her mom was, so was that not enough? All throughout I suppose I believed in God just because I didn't know it was an option not to belive. I wrote about this a couple of months ago (theHeathensGuide.com/none-above/), and it's something that still really resonates in my mind. Religion wasn't any part of my life (I now know the term apa-theist), and I didn't really think of it as anything but fairy tales. Yet, for some reason I still (theoretically, I guess) believed in God.

I'm glad you're getting past the anger; I went through some of that too, but now I look at religion in much the same way as I would a scientific study--I don't entirely understand it, so I put it under a microscope to see what will happen when I poke at it.

Celebrate Reason ‚óŹ Think For Yourself
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04-12-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  It's the holidays again. I'm never sure if I mean to say that with excitement like a screeching kid elated over the prospect of getting a new shiny toy, or if I mean to convey it like an overworked, unpaid laborer with a large family that judges you on your offerings under the tree. Today it is certainly the latter.

The thanksgiving holiday was rough. My health is failing, the weather in Florida cannot decide to be warm or cold and the end of the year rush at work is making the few days we have remaining for this year difficult to endure. When I woke up this morning, I was already on the wrong side of the bed and as I limped into work and bit my tongue to dull the pain in my legs I turned on a little Seth to help me plug through the day.

I did not discover the podcast until a year ago, so I'm not sure if I'm proud to be in the 2013 archives already, or pissed that I haven't caught up yet but the topic I just listened to was the 2 hour conversion he had with his former boss at KXOJ. I never felt the need to *comment* before on any particular podcast, but this one dug into me a little more than I cared too and I need to express something about it.

First off, does any know what a contrarian is? I'd google it, but I'm just too tired. This isn't where the brunt of my rant will be, I just never heard the word. The boss referred to Seth as an atheists and himself as a contrarian when presented with the same evidence. I'm guess he doesn't mean "believer"? Anyway...

My main beef with this man's approach is what he counts as evidence. His little word game where he suckered Seth into acknowledging that evidence of love towards another person can be construed to show how someone's actions can show existence of God was annoying, but I'll forgive Seth's romantic view of the world. No, my issue was at the very end of the podcast the former boss stated that during our darkest moment, if we asked Jesus to enter our lives the changes we would experience would amount to proof that God existence is real.

In the middle of a workshop with other people standing around I screamed at a computer screen... "What makes you think I haven't already DONE that?"

Story time folks...

I have always been ignorant of religion. My mother says I'm catholic, but the moment I first saw Jesus nailed to the cross, I threw up a little. I knew then I wasn't catholic. As for my father's side of the family, Presbyterians put me to sleep so what little time I spent there didn't amount to much other then nap time. I used this time to make up for the fact that I'd stay up all night on saturday trying to save Princess Peach until my fingers turned blue.

Both of my parents eventually gave up trying to teach me religion so I grew up without it. I was six years into military service before I was introduced to it again. This time, in one of the darkest moments in my life.

I always thought of myself as a career sailor. I didn't have dreams of joining the Navy growing up, but when I joined I loved it so much I wanted to stay in forever. Sadly my career was cut short because I was diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder when I went a surprising month or two without consistent sleep and my mood swings began to get noticed by others with a higher rank then me. Before I could even come to grips with the diagnoses, the Navy upended my entire lively hood by removing me from military service and the life I had come to love.

Fuck me...

So I'm a few months from discharge, 25 years old with a few thousand in debt (including a new car I just purchased some months before) no idea what I'm going to do about work or money, where I plan to live or how I'm going to deal with this condition when I meet a nice lady who took an interest in my story and decided to hook her religious talons into me at my moment of weakness. Oh yeah, it worked. Before I could blink I was standing in Pentacostal heaven singing praise to the ol' mighty that he'd cure me and make me better.

Fast forward a few weeks.

Oh the promises... the prayers, the phone calls... nothing that church did ever really helped me deal with my condition or the fact that my life was being turned upside down because of it. I didn't have bipolar disorder, I was just confused because I didn't have a relationship with God. When I tried to have one, I found myself beating the shit out of an innocent cat (I don't know why either, I blame the drugs) or feeling so desolate and unworthy that I spent an entire fourth of July weekend camped out underneath my pool table. This is the best God can do? Before I just had trouble sleeping, and I'd sometimes snap at people for asking me things but now I'm hurting animals and crying under pool tables? Umm... these aren't the changes the church promised.

The answer was clearly a revival camp!

So one weekend I went to this renewal of faith getaway to some ranch out in the woods and the entire time was spent trying to become immersed in the holy spirit (ie... speaking in tongues). Secretly, I was laughing on the inside watching these fools babble like infants but eventually I caved and began to babble myself. I really wanted to feel as good on the inside as these men felt on the outside (at least to me, I couldn't possibly speak to how they were really feeling). I ignored the fact that one of the men lost his entire month's pay when his vehicle was broken into and the church just shrugged that it was a "test of the man's faith", but I admit I bought it again and decided to be baptized. Finally, this curse of sickness will be healed and I will have a place with God.

Funny, two weeks after baptism I found myself swallowing an entire bottle of Seroquel and Ativan and before passing out, I nearly caught my apartment on fire when I decided it was a good idea to burn my old journal of dreams in a hibachi grill in my kitchen.

God must REALLY want me dead...

But a former good friend of mine who lived up stairs noticed the smoke and freed my near lifeless body from my smoldering apartment and when I woke up a few days later strapped to a bed I realized that Jesus had failed me. When I first was diagnosed, I listened to the sweet old lady who said God could fix me and I asked... I prayed... I sincerely asked Jesus to come down and guide me. I was ready for faith. I embraced it, and it resulted in the death of my cat and nearly myself.

Imagine my rage when I heard Seth's guest tell me to ask Jesus to enter my life at my darkest moment. I fucking miss that cat... best cat I ever had! I didn't manage to get my life turned around until I let that sadistic bastard (talking Jesus and by extension the church) go. I moved back home for awhile, went to school, gave up the drugs (bipolar drugs... not cocaine... HHHAAAAHHA) and now own my own house, have a great career and fell in love with another adorable cat. (I promise, the only time I "torture" this cat is when I am trying to take her to the vet). Sure I have a bad back that gives me all sort of grief (I'm fat, and love video games a little too much... nobody is perfect) but in the end, it wasn't Jesus that turned my life around. At least not for the better...

If I spent another day chasing Jesus... I shudder at the thought.

So that is my major gripe with God. When the chips are down who do you actually count on? God? I tried that... it was an embarrassing six months I'd like to forget. I don't because let's face it, I'd hate to repeat the same mistake again.

I'd also hate to lose another cat.

I am that kind of atheist by the way... the one "angry" at God. Or I was. Spending time with this community is making me realize I'm not angry at God. Just people who think God is a good idea. I spend a lot of time working through my problems on my own. This community helps me make sense of the world, and on occasion the nonsense that lives in my head.

Thanks guys! I appreciate the ability to babble here. Take care every one and Happy Holidays!

~ Ron

First, I am sincerely sorry for all that has befallen you. You have indeed certainly suffered through some terrible trials. Second, I'm also sorry you fell in with a church that promised you healing without being able to heal you (the Bible says false teachers are like clouds that promise wonderful rain but there is no precipitation--Jude) which was also a church that offered you prayer and miracles but it (sounds like) no real help for real, important needs (James talks about not just telling people "be warm and comfortable" but making people warm and comfortable and loved and everything else).

Second, the podcast seems very off to me. Send me a PM if you want to discuss the real, saving gospel. I'd be happy to do that, besides 1) putting you in touch with healing ministries with excellent track records of success and 2) seeing what I can do to help with the rest.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-12-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
Uh, yeah. Before I say anything else? etbonney, just on the unlikely chance that you might possibly take Continuum seriously, don't take him seriously. He's here doing the smarmy apologist thing trying to convert atheists or maybe just troll him, which is something the moderators tolerate 'cause free speech and shit, but don't let him catch you unawares. Be alert and skeptical. Probably not a warning you need, but not something I want to risk letting slide by unsaid if it DOES need said. He'll try to debate me on this. Not the point and I won't engage. I'm just hanging a big flashy neon "here to sell used doctrine and/or cars" over his head to make it less likely for you to get suckered. Mission accomplished, moving on.

Second, what almost everyone else said. Including the wtf about the cat. I know, I know, psychological conditions and pharmaceuticals can make you do crap that you're not entirely responsible for. Just the emotional-level reaction.

Thirdly, your story pisses me off. Not at you, but at religion. It never ceases to amaze and infuriate me. The arrogance of people who think that a holy book and (sometimes) seminary can substitute for psychological, sociological, or sometimes even medical training. The way they make things WORSE, not just by giving bad advise, but by getting in the way of and even badmouthing GOOD treatment. Again, this isn't all ministers or all religion, but it's a significant chunk of it. The footprint of awful in our society is huge.

(Hmmm... project idea... do a side by side comparison, statistical longitudinal study, seeing how religious treatment stacks up versus secular treatment on measurable results for things like psychiatry, medicine, family counseling, etc. I'd guess that no one's even done a study like this, because who'd fund it? Government won't shine any lights on religion ever, and religion don't need to pay for data to toot its own horn.)

Fourthly, echoing again what others have said, I'm sorry about the awful in your life, glad things are going for you, welcome to the forums, and watch your step 'cause the trolls leave piles.
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