Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
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09-12-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(05-12-2014 04:11 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  If the OP is still here, and you want to answer, please tell us. Did Q's offer to show you the "true gospel" and refer you to "healing ministries" upset you, or not? Did anyone's suggestion for counseling, or a PM, or general advice, upset you?

(05-12-2014 03:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. Clearly I'm on ignore from you, because I've offered several times to help pay for professional counseling.

I forgot how dishonest you are, PleaseJesus/Q. I'll take you off stealth mode and do some reading to see if I've made an error...

... and back. I forgot how much fun it is scraping posts. So, here's a collection of all your posts in this thread to date. It would appear you've lied on several points.

#19: 2) seeing what I can do to help with the rest.
"What I can do" must have meant "pay for professional counseling. I mean, the two phrases are nearly interchangeable. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

#22 - No mention of paying for anything.

#28 - I'm offering WHATEVER et needs, including financial help
This is the first, and only, mention of paying for professional help. And seriously, a generous offer. It's a shame you squandered the opportunity with your approach.

#33 - No mention of paying for anything.

#34 - No mention of paying for anything.

#35 - No mention of paying for anything.

(05-12-2014 03:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. I've spent a year in a lay counseling training program to sharpen skills. I formerly headed our church's counseling "program". I'm not a qualified counselor.

So not qualified then. Neither am I, although I have also worked with troubled youth and adults. Which brings us right back to the crux of the issue and my only argument, the one you keep disregarding:

(05-12-2014 03:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. The guns blazing are because someone giving clear indications of real pain was getting trite, hackneyed "answers" from the "professional counselors here". Thanks for NOT pointing out ANY atheist's "counseling", just mine, AGAIN showing your biases.

Let's recap, mostly for everyone else. You'll ignore this point completely (again). The OP has serious issues and resentments against religion. To the chalkboard, Bart:

I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONAL TRAUMA CAUSED BY RELIGION
I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONAL TRAUMA CAUSED BY RELIGION
I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONAL TRAUMA CAUSED BY RELIGION
I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO...

Completely. Insensitive.

I even offered you a suggestion of an opening line; I truly believe you want to help and was trying to offer a way to facilitate that without being so ham-fisted. A way to still offer help without alienating yourself through religious context. You also ignored that. You see, I didn't criticize you for offering to help. I criticized you for offering to help with religion, an OBVIOUS point of trauma for the OP. You know this, but when faced with a mistake, you consistently chose to dance around it and instead construct strawmen.

As for atheist counseling, I reread to see if there was any. I found the following posts that went as far as to suggest specific treatment:

Quote:Microterf
Thanks for the heartfelt story, I hope that everything is going well, seem's like it's gotten a lot better at least. If you need anything always feel free to PM me.

Quote:Stevil
Perhaps a doctor and/or psychiatrist, perhaps medication, perhaps a support group? I think you probably have some special issues that require some special and focused attention.

Quote:Peebothuhul
All I can offer, much like any one else here, is an electronic shoulder for you as some support. As others have said, please seek help from medical folks who have the knowledge and skills to help you with your things.

The rest are either shock about a cat dying, or relating personally to mental illness, or a general "sorry to hear that."

See any religion in those posts? See anything that might trigger a negative reaction from someone wounded by religion? See any negative or questionable advice at all? I don't, which means you just made a false judgement against these people. As is your MO. But I forgive you, PleaseJesus.

By the way, since you considered your comment "see what I can do" to mean "pay for counceling" (editors note: this comment appears in post #19, and a similar comment appears in post #28, both being referenced to as "several times"), can I assume that Microterf's " If you need anything always feel free to PM me" to have a similar meaning?

For those of you listening, part of counseling is establishing trust. PJ, Q Continuum, whatever, ruined a genuine attempt at help by representing the very thing the OP resents.

Thanks for keeping me on point. Again, repeating, I can provide free counseling from a qualified professional "on tap" for such instances and/or financial help, and gladly.

I find that many people who offer such help are genuine and also that many who say, "Don't let the religious help" are not helpful themselves--that is, ones who won't collaborate freely despite religious affiliation or lack of any religious affiliation tend to complain about others helping but offer little help themselves. You are an exception to this rule, hopefully.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-12-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(09-12-2014 11:40 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Thanks for keeping me on point. Again, repeating, I can provide free counseling from a qualified professional "on tap" for such instances and/or financial help, and gladly.

I find that many people who offer such help are genuine and also that many who say, "Don't let the religious help" are not helpful themselves--that is, ones who won't collaborate freely despite religious affiliation or lack of any religious affiliation tend to complain about others helping but offer little help themselves. You are an exception to this rule, hopefully.

Based on my experience, people saying "don't let the religious help" are the exception. I've coexisted quite well with the faithful in my volunteer experiences.

I hope the OP takes you up on your offer.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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09-12-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(09-12-2014 11:40 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(05-12-2014 04:11 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  If the OP is still here, and you want to answer, please tell us. Did Q's offer to show you the "true gospel" and refer you to "healing ministries" upset you, or not? Did anyone's suggestion for counseling, or a PM, or general advice, upset you?


I forgot how dishonest you are, PleaseJesus/Q. I'll take you off stealth mode and do some reading to see if I've made an error...

... and back. I forgot how much fun it is scraping posts. So, here's a collection of all your posts in this thread to date. It would appear you've lied on several points.

#19: 2) seeing what I can do to help with the rest.
"What I can do" must have meant "pay for professional counseling. I mean, the two phrases are nearly interchangeable. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

#22 - No mention of paying for anything.

#28 - I'm offering WHATEVER et needs, including financial help
This is the first, and only, mention of paying for professional help. And seriously, a generous offer. It's a shame you squandered the opportunity with your approach.

#33 - No mention of paying for anything.

#34 - No mention of paying for anything.

#35 - No mention of paying for anything.


So not qualified then. Neither am I, although I have also worked with troubled youth and adults. Which brings us right back to the crux of the issue and my only argument, the one you keep disregarding:


Let's recap, mostly for everyone else. You'll ignore this point completely (again). The OP has serious issues and resentments against religion. To the chalkboard, Bart:

I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONAL TRAUMA CAUSED BY RELIGION
I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONAL TRAUMA CAUSED BY RELIGION
I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONAL TRAUMA CAUSED BY RELIGION
I WILL NOT OFFER RELIGIOUS SOLUTIONS TO...

Completely. Insensitive.

I even offered you a suggestion of an opening line; I truly believe you want to help and was trying to offer a way to facilitate that without being so ham-fisted. A way to still offer help without alienating yourself through religious context. You also ignored that. You see, I didn't criticize you for offering to help. I criticized you for offering to help with religion, an OBVIOUS point of trauma for the OP. You know this, but when faced with a mistake, you consistently chose to dance around it and instead construct strawmen.

As for atheist counseling, I reread to see if there was any. I found the following posts that went as far as to suggest specific treatment:




The rest are either shock about a cat dying, or relating personally to mental illness, or a general "sorry to hear that."

See any religion in those posts? See anything that might trigger a negative reaction from someone wounded by religion? See any negative or questionable advice at all? I don't, which means you just made a false judgement against these people. As is your MO. But I forgive you, PleaseJesus.

By the way, since you considered your comment "see what I can do" to mean "pay for counceling" (editors note: this comment appears in post #19, and a similar comment appears in post #28, both being referenced to as "several times"), can I assume that Microterf's " If you need anything always feel free to PM me" to have a similar meaning?

For those of you listening, part of counseling is establishing trust. PJ, Q Continuum, whatever, ruined a genuine attempt at help by representing the very thing the OP resents.

Thanks for keeping me on point. Again, repeating, I can provide free counseling from a qualified professional "on tap" for such instances and/or financial help, and gladly.

I find that many people who offer such help are genuine and also that many who say, "Don't let the religious help" are not helpful themselves--that is, ones who won't collaborate freely despite religious affiliation or lack of any religious affiliation tend to complain about others helping but offer little help themselves. You are an exception to this rule, hopefully.

Thanks.

I'll take some of that financial help. Big Grin
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14-09-2015, 09:25 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(01-12-2014 08:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  Oh the promises... the prayers, the phone calls... nothing that church did ever really helped me deal with my condition or the fact that my life was being turned upside down because of it.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  This is the best God can do? Before I just had trouble sleeping, and I'd sometimes snap at people for asking me things but now I'm hurting animals and crying under pool tables? Umm... these aren't the changes the church promised.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  Finally, this curse of sickness will be healed and I will have a place with God.
Funny, two weeks after baptism I found myself swallowing an entire bottle of Seroquel and Ativan and before passing out, I nearly caught my apartment on fire when I decided it was a good idea to burn my old journal of dreams in a hibachi grill in my kitchen.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  when I woke up a few days later strapped to a bed I realized that Jesus had failed me.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  When I first was diagnosed, I listened to the sweet old lady who said God could fix me and I asked... I prayed... I sincerely asked Jesus to come down and guide me. I was ready for faith. I embraced it, and it resulted in the death of my cat and nearly myself.
(01-12-2014 06:21 PM)etbonney Wrote:  God must REALLY want me dead...

There are a couple of thoughts I have here.

Firstly bipolar disorder is a problem some people have. I don't think there is a cure, but I think it can be managed somewhat. I is sad to hear you go into a "dark" place such that you hurting loved animals and burning down your residency. So I think your bipolar issues would benefit from being addressed. Perhaps a doctor and/or psychiatrist, perhaps medication, perhaps a support group? I think you probably have some special issues that require some special and focused attention.

Secondly I think you take it that your problems are someone else's fault. That you expect that you can pray to a god or Jesus and then your recovery becomes their responsibility, your failures become their failures.
Whoever you go to for help they are just there to assist you, to support you. You will not improve if you think it is someone else's responsibility. The responsibility is entirely yours. There is only so much others can do for you. You need to stand up and hold yourself accountable for your own actions. Try and find people that can help, people you can trust and people that can bring out the best in you. But realise that unless you are ready to take accountability, you will not find anyone that can help you.

I haven't been on this forum in a while, so I apologize for taking so long to respond.

I love telling stories, but I when I re-read my original post I realized that I did not convey the point I wanted to make very well. I wanted to take a moment to clarify what I was trying to say.

When I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, I was seeking non-religious treatments and for the most part it was working. I was sleeping better, my moods swings were less dramatic and I was dealing with the life changes ok. I still had huge hurdles to overcome but I feel that if I stayed the course I would have been fine. Things for me didn't become messed up until I was introduced to religion.

I was about three months away from discharge when I was introduced to religion from my next door neighbor, a self-proclaimed prophet who listened to me tell my story over a beer in front of the laundry machines and decided that taking pills and listening to doctors was not the road to a happier life. She asked me if I knew the healing power of God and I had to say no, because as I said in my post I was raised mostly outside of church. She decided to invite me to her church to meet her "family".

At first, it was awkward. My previous experiences with churches were somber and boring. This one was more lively, and I got caught up in the laughing, singing, dancing and "holy ghost" aspect of it. When you are suffering from anxiety over losing your primary income and looking to rebuild your life while learning to deal with a mental disorder; it was great fun to throw caution to the wind and enjoy a party.

Soon after, I was accepted into this "Assembly of God" church and as I tried to colorfully describe in my original post, their teachings about what God would do conflicted with my actual experiences and maybe I just couldn't deal with my emotions all that well during this time. I don't recall every detail, but I did do things that I was not proud of; mostly because I was angry and frustrated that the promises of healing that I clung too so desperately failed to actually do anything. I never blamed anyone for my problems, I only wondered why the Pastor of this church and those who attended it kept 'promising' that things would get better and they made me pray in front of the entire group to 'let go' of my problems and allow Jesus to take them away. I did that, and I *believed* he would take care of me. I fell apart when I realized no one will take care of me but myself and I lashed out. First at God, then at things I used to deem important because I was ANGRY I was lied too.

I don't think I conveyed THAT point in my original post very well.

I spent the next several months thinking that the reason the healing wasn't working and my behavior became more bizarre was because I somehow wasn't important to god. I didn't have enough faith, or the right kind of faith. All this was happening to me because it was 'my fault'. Then the things I described in the post happened because when you start blaming yourself for failing to live up to God's standards and he decides to not intervene when I needed him most; well there isn't a day that goes by that I wish I would have slapped that prophet and never went down this path. I did though go down the path, I regret it, but I refuse to ignore it. The pain those months bring taught me a valuable lesson that allows me to live a better life today.

In writing that post, I think I was trying to take responsibility by highlighting some of the stupid stuff I did while also trying to demonstrate how religious thinking derailed my emotional well-being to a point that made my condition terribly difficult to control. I mean who wants to publically admit their actions caused harm to an innocent animal? I didn't have to say that, but I did because I felt like it was important to own my mistakes but also highlight what caused the anger and frustration that led to that tragic event.

It's been several years since those times. To properly respond to your post, I never asked God (or anyone) to take responsibility for my problems. The church claimed that if I gave myself over to Jesus he would take my pain away. That didn't happen. When I realized I had to own my mistakes and take care of my own life, I pursued behavior therapy, studied Bipolar Disorder, worked with a psychiatrist who felt that drugs should be the *last* option and in the years since I have built a great career, stabilized myself financially bought a new home and have taken great care of six year old lovely princess kitty without the help of any drugs. I still have bad days, times where I can't sleep but I find ways to manage those swings that don't result in a derailment of my life. I am happy and well adjusted.

The podcast (specific episode) angered me because the KXOJ boss claimed that if you turned too Jesus in your darkest moment, that is when you will know he is real. I did that, and the point I was hoping to make is that despite his outcome, my results showed that at least in my case, Jesus forgot to show up.

Take care everyone! I hope things are going well.

~ Ron
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14-09-2015, 09:28 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
Prolly don't wanna hear from another prophet then. Sadcryface2

And don't mind Q, he's a douchebag. Big Grin

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14-09-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
Religion has a way of making life much more complicated than it needs to be.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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15-09-2015, 05:27 AM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(14-09-2015 09:25 PM)etbonney Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 08:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  There are a couple of thoughts I have here.

Firstly bipolar disorder is a problem some people have. I don't think there is a cure, but I think it can be managed somewhat. I is sad to hear you go into a "dark" place such that you hurting loved animals and burning down your residency. So I think your bipolar issues would benefit from being addressed. Perhaps a doctor and/or psychiatrist, perhaps medication, perhaps a support group? I think you probably have some special issues that require some special and focused attention.

Secondly I think you take it that your problems are someone else's fault. That you expect that you can pray to a god or Jesus and then your recovery becomes their responsibility, your failures become their failures.
Whoever you go to for help they are just there to assist you, to support you. You will not improve if you think it is someone else's responsibility. The responsibility is entirely yours. There is only so much others can do for you. You need to stand up and hold yourself accountable for your own actions. Try and find people that can help, people you can trust and people that can bring out the best in you. But realise that unless you are ready to take accountability, you will not find anyone that can help you.

I haven't been on this forum in a while, so I apologize for taking so long to respond.

I love telling stories, but I when I re-read my original post I realized that I did not convey the point I wanted to make very well. I wanted to take a moment to clarify what I was trying to say.

When I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, I was seeking non-religious treatments and for the most part it was working. I was sleeping better, my moods swings were less dramatic and I was dealing with the life changes ok. I still had huge hurdles to overcome but I feel that if I stayed the course I would have been fine. Things for me didn't become messed up until I was introduced to religion.

I was about three months away from discharge when I was introduced to religion from my next door neighbor, a self-proclaimed prophet who listened to me tell my story over a beer in front of the laundry machines and decided that taking pills and listening to doctors was not the road to a happier life. She asked me if I knew the healing power of God and I had to say no, because as I said in my post I was raised mostly outside of church. She decided to invite me to her church to meet her "family".

At first, it was awkward. My previous experiences with churches were somber and boring. This one was more lively, and I got caught up in the laughing, singing, dancing and "holy ghost" aspect of it. When you are suffering from anxiety over losing your primary income and looking to rebuild your life while learning to deal with a mental disorder; it was great fun to throw caution to the wind and enjoy a party.

Soon after, I was accepted into this "Assembly of God" church and as I tried to colorfully describe in my original post, their teachings about what God would do conflicted with my actual experiences and maybe I just couldn't deal with my emotions all that well during this time. I don't recall every detail, but I did do things that I was not proud of; mostly because I was angry and frustrated that the promises of healing that I clung too so desperately failed to actually do anything. I never blamed anyone for my problems, I only wondered why the Pastor of this church and those who attended it kept 'promising' that things would get better and they made me pray in front of the entire group to 'let go' of my problems and allow Jesus to take them away. I did that, and I *believed* he would take care of me. I fell apart when I realized no one will take care of me but myself and I lashed out. First at God, then at things I used to deem important because I was ANGRY I was lied too.

I don't think I conveyed THAT point in my original post very well.

I spent the next several months thinking that the reason the healing wasn't working and my behavior became more bizarre was because I somehow wasn't important to god. I didn't have enough faith, or the right kind of faith. All this was happening to me because it was 'my fault'. Then the things I described in the post happened because when you start blaming yourself for failing to live up to God's standards and he decides to not intervene when I needed him most; well there isn't a day that goes by that I wish I would have slapped that prophet and never went down this path. I did though go down the path, I regret it, but I refuse to ignore it. The pain those months bring taught me a valuable lesson that allows me to live a better life today.

In writing that post, I think I was trying to take responsibility by highlighting some of the stupid stuff I did while also trying to demonstrate how religious thinking derailed my emotional well-being to a point that made my condition terribly difficult to control. I mean who wants to publically admit their actions caused harm to an innocent animal? I didn't have to say that, but I did because I felt like it was important to own my mistakes but also highlight what caused the anger and frustration that led to that tragic event.

It's been several years since those times. To properly respond to your post, I never asked God (or anyone) to take responsibility for my problems. The church claimed that if I gave myself over to Jesus he would take my pain away. That didn't happen. When I realized I had to own my mistakes and take care of my own life, I pursued behavior therapy, studied Bipolar Disorder, worked with a psychiatrist who felt that drugs should be the *last* option and in the years since I have built a great career, stabilized myself financially bought a new home and have taken great care of six year old lovely princess kitty without the help of any drugs. I still have bad days, times where I can't sleep but I find ways to manage those swings that don't result in a derailment of my life. I am happy and well adjusted.

The podcast (specific episode) angered me because the KXOJ boss claimed that if you turned too Jesus in your darkest moment, that is when you will know he is real. I did that, and the point I was hoping to make is that despite his outcome, my results showed that at least in my case, Jesus forgot to show up.

Take care everyone! I hope things are going well.

~ Ron

Glad to hear you're sorting things out. Here's a summary for what has transpired since you last posted:

1. Most of us are still around and we are still atheists.

2. Q is still an asshole with boundary issues that refuses to go away because his imaginary friend told him to stay.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-09-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
Heh... I didn't even notice Q's post. Anytime someone says "Let me tell you the REAL gospel"... I think I automatically tune-out. I was actually responding to Stevil's post because they asked some questions and offered their opinion about what I said, and I realized that I didn't speak my point very clearly. I did not want to give the impression that I blamed anyone or that I was not taking responsibility.

I went back and read Q's posts and truthfully, I would not be interested in hearing any gospel, real or otherwise. Here is a fun point about what I learned about science and evidence. For a long time, I was taking off-label medications to help control my bipolar disorder. One year, after burning my brain on several dozen pills twice a day, I finally got around to remembering to ask my doctor why he had prescribed me an anti-seizure medication when I never had a seizure. He told me it was prescribed off-label because it has been shown to help alleviate some of the symptoms of manic episodes in bipolar patients. My next question was "How?" and he responded that the exact method of how these pills work on the brain was not fully understood. Later on, I came to find out that many of the drugs I was taking were not actually "for" bipolar disorder (or mania, or depression) and that most of them were not "fully" understood on how they work on the brain.

I'm not saying that science and medicine is stupid... I am saying that if you can't show me how something works with reliable results I cannot trust it. I apply this logic to everything from medicine, to the gospels I'm sure Q wants to share with me. As for the medicine, I went to several different doctors and found a psychiatrist and social worker who specialized in behavior therapy and have learned to manage my condition without drugs. I basically replaced a pill that sometimes work in various patients with no clear understanding of the mechanics behind it's actions with life skills that while tough to adhere too work with almost perfect accuracy. They showed me how it works, why it works and I learned to apply them successfully to a point where I don't need to burn my brain on drugs any longer.

That day I became a skeptic. Smile

Take care,

Ron

PS - Thank you for the offer Q, but unless you want to discuss video games, football, how to properly use quotation marks, or how to understand cat psychology I wouldn't really be interested in having a private conversation about the gospel.
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15-09-2015, 06:10 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
[/quote]
Glad to hear you're sorting things out. Here's a summary for what has transpired since you last posted:

1. Most of us are still around and we are still atheists.

2. Q is still an asshole with boundary issues that refuses to go away because his imaginary friend told him to stay.
[/quote]

So can my imaginary friend kick his imaginary friend in the balls? Oh wait... I don't have an imaginary friend. Can I kick his imaginary friend in the balls? Oh wait... I'd just be kicking air right? Damn... well I would offer to kick Q in the balls but that just seem cruel and mean. I'd rather give him a cookie, pat him on the head and send him on his way. That wasn't too condescending was it? Was it?? Huh
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15-09-2015, 06:30 PM
RE: Just ask Jesus to enter your life...
(15-09-2015 06:10 PM)etbonney Wrote:  That wasn't too condescending was it? Was it?? Huh

Wasn't condescending enough. You're gonna have to stay after school for remedial insultage 101.

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