"Just following orders"
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23-01-2014, 07:36 AM
"Just following orders"
Let's assume the Abrahamic god exists. Why would you follow him? He's genocidal, petty, vindictive and has an appalling inferiority complex. Yet so many do as they're told by him. They fight to reduce women's rights. They fight to prevent the advancement of gay rights. They do all kinds of harmful things with no other justification than "it's what I believe."

Is this any different to the old excuse of "just following orders"?

So even if you do believe god exists, I would argue that you are a bad person for following those teachings without question.
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23-01-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
"bad" is relative.

Morality as dictated (literally) by Divine Command Theory holds that "bad" would include a slave being disobedient of its master... a sheep disobeying its shepherd.

How dare you impose your damn newfangled secular morality on these fine upstanding members of a society that you have rejected!

Tongue

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23-01-2014, 08:17 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
(23-01-2014 07:36 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  Let's assume the Abrahamic god exists. Why would you follow him? He's genocidal, petty, vindictive and has an appalling inferiority complex. Yet so many do as they're told by him. They fight to reduce women's rights. They fight to prevent the advancement of gay rights. They do all kinds of harmful things with no other justification than "it's what I believe."

Is this any different to the old excuse of "just following orders"?

So even if you do believe god exists, I would argue that you are a bad person for following those teachings without question.

Because if you don't, he has the power to torture you forever if you don't obey. And, because he is God (our assumption says so) he gets to say what is good and bad. Therefore our morals will reflect his and when he says jump, we say, "how high?"

Doc
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23-01-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
(23-01-2014 08:17 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Because if you don't, he has the power to torture you forever if you don't obey. And, because he is God (our assumption says so) he gets to say what is good and bad. Therefore our morals will reflect his and when he says jump, we say, "how high?"

Doc

Well we only have his word for that, don't we? Don't thugs and tyrants always claim to be gods? Why would the next life be any different?
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23-01-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
When you said assume that the Abrahamic God exists, I took that literally. Any God that can wipe out the entire earth with a flood deserves to be feared and obeyed.

Regards,
Doc
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23-01-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
(23-01-2014 08:41 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  When you said assume that the Abrahamic God exists, I took that literally. Any God that can wipe out the entire earth with a flood deserves to be feared and obeyed.

Regards,
Doc

Well, the god that divinely inspired the Bible exists. Why should we believe all his words at face value though?
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23-01-2014, 08:51 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
(23-01-2014 08:41 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Any God that can wipe out the entire earth with a flood deserves to be feared and obeyed.

And loathed, if he actually pulls off stupid shit like that. Fortunately we don't need no questionable Gods with weird ideas about good and evil for global destruction. We do just fine with meteorites with no morals.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-01-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
Elder,
Maybe you should define your premise better. When you say "assume the god that divinely inspired the Bible exists", do you mean: assume that YHWH with all the attributes described in the OT and the NT exists? If so, the answer is easy - I would obey with a capital "O". Or do you mean something else? Which words should we not take at face value and which ones should we? How do you determine the difference if a god truly exists and he divinely inspired the Bible?

What would you base your definition of good and bad on? If there is no God, the answer is easy: Socially derived morals are a perfectly acceptable alternative. If there is a God: He makes the rules.

Regards,

Doc
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23-01-2014, 09:14 AM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2014 09:19 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: "Just following orders"
(23-01-2014 07:36 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  Let's assume the Abrahamic god exists.
Why assume ?? look around! God exists everywhere! you have to be blind and spiritually ignorant to NOT see God in everything... although you may call that crazy but that's totally not crazy!
Quote:Why would you follow him? He's genocidal, petty, vindictive and has an appalling inferiority complex.
I don't know which God you're talking about..Huh God Yahweh is the epitome kindness,generosity and mercy! Thumbsup
Quote:They fight to reduce women's rights.
Look buddy here are the FACTS :-

Not everyone is born with equal rights.. God created man in his image NOT woman.. women are supposed to submit to men as it is written in the HOLY Bible.
Quote:They fight to prevent the advancement of gay rights.
Homosexuality is a SIN.... it says so right there in the Holy book of almighty cosmic Jewish Zombie himself.

Your argument is invalid!Drinking Beverage

It doesn't matter if homosexuality is perfectly natural.. it still is a SIN.. (even though God kinda pre-disposed us to sin for some reason)
Quote:So even if you do believe god exists, I would argue that you are a bad person for following those teachings without question.
They are divine commandments for a reason buddy.. they're not disputable!!

Dude just a heads up,i'm just screwin' with ya.. in case you might take my post seriously Tongue

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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23-01-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: "Just following orders"
You don't need to love something to genuflect to it. Fear of death and/or torture (for you or your loved ones!) can be quite sufficient. Oddly enough, the OT version of YHWH seemed to want adherence more than anything else, and threatened people with literal, actual death. The NT version is somehow more concerned with love and faith, yet he ups the ante with eternal torture...

That being said, most followers will say something about faith, love, and mysterious ways. It's a convenient way to address all the good parts and sweep the bad ones under the cognitive dissonance rug.
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