Just got a BoM
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03-09-2013, 07:20 AM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 06:28 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 01:01 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Apparently the BoM uses the phrase 'and it came to pass' very excessively. The Bible has the phrase some 452 times across 31,102 verses. The BoM has 1424 uses across just 6553 verses. It is, to quote Hitchens 'quite soporific'.

Actually, it's English translations that have that phrase around 400-500 times, and they intentionally limit the number of times they render it that way. In the Hebrew, the phrase ויהי occurs almost 1800 times. Now, the Hebrew Bible is a lot larger than the Book of Mormon, but this phrase occurs in narrative and not in poetry, and the Book of Mormon has virtually no poetry at all in it. Correcting for genre, the Hebrew Bible and the Book of Mormon use the phrase with about the same frequency. There are plenty of things to criticize about Latter-day Saint belief, but this one just betrays the naivety and lack of critical thinking that attends much atheist litany.


Right, so how does that make the 1424 uses across 6553 verses (that's an average of 1 every 4.6 verses) of it in the BoM any less grating and soporific? It reads more like Smith heard the phrase in the KJV, really liked how austere it sounded, then decided to repeat it ad nausea in his fiction.

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03-09-2013, 08:22 AM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 07:20 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 06:28 AM)maklelan Wrote:  Actually, it's English translations that have that phrase around 400-500 times, and they intentionally limit the number of times they render it that way. In the Hebrew, the phrase ויהי occurs almost 1800 times. Now, the Hebrew Bible is a lot larger than the Book of Mormon, but this phrase occurs in narrative and not in poetry, and the Book of Mormon has virtually no poetry at all in it. Correcting for genre, the Hebrew Bible and the Book of Mormon use the phrase with about the same frequency. There are plenty of things to criticize about Latter-day Saint belief, but this one just betrays the naivety and lack of critical thinking that attends much atheist litany.


Right, so how does that make the 1424 uses across 6553 verses (that's an average of 1 every 4.6 verses) of it in the BoM any less grating and soporific? It reads more like Smith heard the phrase in the KJV, really liked how austere it sounded, then decided to repeat it ad nausea in his fiction.

So your criticism is really only that you find the text repetitive and boring? Someone brings up the Book of Mormon and this is your contribution? Have you ever read any Ugaritic mythology before?

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03-09-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 08:22 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 07:20 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so how does that make the 1424 uses across 6553 verses (that's an average of 1 every 4.6 verses) of it in the BoM any less grating and soporific? It reads more like Smith heard the phrase in the KJV, really liked how austere it sounded, then decided to repeat it ad nausea in his fiction.

So your criticism is really only that you find the text repetitive and boring? Someone brings up the Book of Mormon and this is your contribution? Have you ever read any Ugaritic mythology before?

No, the criticism is that it is soporific, sophomoric, and boring, and obviously made up by a semi-educated conman. I'd say very few people are interested in Ugaritic mythology regardless of its use of "it came to pass" or other moronic phrases.

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03-09-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 08:22 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 07:20 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so how does that make the 1424 uses across 6553 verses (that's an average of 1 every 4.6 verses) of it in the BoM any less grating and soporific? It reads more like Smith heard the phrase in the KJV, really liked how austere it sounded, then decided to repeat it ad nausea in his fiction.

So your criticism is really only that you find the text repetitive and boring? Someone brings up the Book of Mormon and this is your contribution? Have you ever read any Ugaritic mythology before?


The book is entirely unimpressive. I'd much rather go back and re-read the Iliad or Beowulf before I trudge through the BoM again; the story is so racist it hurts.

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03-09-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 09:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 08:22 AM)maklelan Wrote:  So your criticism is really only that you find the text repetitive and boring? Someone brings up the Book of Mormon and this is your contribution? Have you ever read any Ugaritic mythology before?


The book is entirely unimpressive. I'd much rather go back and re-read the Iliad or Beowulf before I trudge through the BoM again; the story is so racist it hurts.

I dunno when it came to pass that I was to read the book of mormon I found it an alright read. It came to pass that there were far less lists of genealogy even if the base story was racist as fuck. It came to pass that I could not believe how any human being with a functioning neuron could believe that this obvious fraud was anything but. However it came to pass that the mormon missionaries who gave me the book stopped coming by when I asked too many hard questions. And finally it came to pass that the only reason that Mormonism and scientology are the obvious frauds is the fact that they came to pass recently enough for us to have actual records.

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03-09-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 09:45 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I dunno when it came to pass that I was to read the book of mormon I found it an alright read. It came to pass that there were far less lists of genealogy even if the base story was racist as fuck. It came to pass that I could not believe how any human being with a functioning neuron could believe that this obvious fraud was anything but. However it came to pass that the mormon missionaries who gave me the book stopped coming by when I asked too many hard questions. And finally it came to pass that the only reason that Mormonism and scientology are the obvious frauds is the fact that they came to pass recently enough for us to have actual records.

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03-09-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 09:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The book is entirely unimpressive. I'd much rather go back and re-read the Iliad or Beowulf before I trudge through the BoM again; the story is so racist it hurts.

It appeals to the common 19th century Protestant notion of the curse of Cain, but it also condemns those who hated and persecuted people because of the color of their skin, as well as proclaims those in a particular community with darker skin to be more righteous than those with white skin. For the time period this was quite progressive, as was Joseph Smith's platform regarding slavery. It was Brigham Young and other leaders from then through to the mid-twentieth century who produced the more racist ideologies that are mostly responsible for informing the websites and mischaracterizations from which you've drawn this notion of the Book of Mormon's racism. If you would just sit down and actually read the book for what it is instead of what other people tell you it is, you'd be surprised (not by how entertaining it is, but by how little it has to do with its popular characterization). You're certainly free to remain padded up inside your presuppositions and prejudices, though. The internet has certainly provided enough buttressing.

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03-09-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 02:37 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 09:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The book is entirely unimpressive. I'd much rather go back and re-read the Iliad or Beowulf before I trudge through the BoM again; the story is so racist it hurts.

It appeals to the common 19th century Protestant notion of the curse of Cain, but it also condemns those who hated and persecuted people because of the color of their skin, as well as proclaims those in a particular community with darker skin to be more righteous than those with white skin. For the time period this was quite progressive, as was Joseph Smith's platform regarding slavery. It was Brigham Young and other leaders from then through to the mid-twentieth century who produced the more racist ideologies that are mostly responsible for informing the websites and mischaracterizations from which you've drawn this notion of the Book of Mormon's racism. If you would just sit down and actually read the book for what it is instead of what other people tell you it is, you'd be surprised (not by how entertaining it is, but by how little it has to do with its popular characterization). You're certainly free to remain padded up inside your presuppositions and prejudices, though. The internet has certainly provided enough buttressing.

The story of the tribes that came to America is racist at its core.

Where do you think Young et al. got their justifications?

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03-09-2013, 06:33 PM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 09:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, the criticism is that it is soporific, sophomoric, and boring, and obviously made up by a semi-educated conman. I'd say very few people are interested in Ugaritic mythology regardless of its use of "it came to pass" or other moronic phrases.

I'm quite sure you meant "mormonic phrases" Drinking Beverage

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03-09-2013, 06:35 PM
RE: Just got a BoM
(03-09-2013 06:33 PM)KVron Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 09:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, the criticism is that it is soporific, sophomoric, and boring, and obviously made up by a semi-educated conman. I'd say very few people are interested in Ugaritic mythology regardless of its use of "it came to pass" or other moronic phrases.

I'm quite sure you meant "mormonic phrases" Drinking Beverage

Same same. Drinking Beverage

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