Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
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30-11-2012, 09:36 PM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 06:01 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  You're not getting it.

Sure it's in the out-dated constitution, but like I said, what about gay pride shit, what about the Irish, what about the Chinese, what about any other minority who never seems to have all this fuss associated with it??

Fuck the constitution.

People, you people, bitch about it all the time "oh the constitution says this it's out dated and needs to be changed" BUT as soon as it helps you in your case it's all "but the constitution says this". It's no better then a theists saying this part of the bible is literal and this part is metaphorical.



Also, would you people be complaining if you were theists? Noooooo...
Don't be an ass. Those other celebrations are not state-supported.

And what do you mean "out-dated constitution"?

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30-11-2012, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2012 10:05 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 08:59 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 08:22 PM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  Gay Pride = Not religious.
St Paddy's Day = Not religious.
Chinese New Year = Not religious.

As none are religious, the constitution says nothing about the government funding and/or promoting them, which is why no one kicks up a fuss about them. The entire reason a fuss is made about government funding and/or promoting Christmas is because the Christians have claimed it as a religious holiday. If they went off promoting Ramadan, or some holiday promoting the Jedi Order then secular people who care about the constitution would also kick up a fuss about that.

Now, if Christians want to give up their claim on Christmas and admit they nicked it so that it is no longer associated with their religion, then I think you'll find no one could give a crap about the government getting involved and having a good ol' time.
Chinese New Years, Saint Patrick's day are both cultural holidays.
How is it perfectly fine to be fine with different cultural holidays, yet not fine with religious holidays?

The line between culture and religion is pretty slim IMO. At least with religion it effects more people (Christmas anyway) and is personal choice.

I understand that the state is suppose to be separate from religion but allowing people to erect (tehe) nativity scenes on public property is far from enacting religious legislation.
If anyone needs to cut the bullshit, it's you folk. You wanna get real? let's get real for a moment.
73% of Americans associate themselves with Christianity. 73%.
Are you saying that a government allowing a holiday for 73% of the public holiday in the public stage is unconstitutional? That's a little fucked up IMO.
73% of tax payers are Christians. How many gays or Irish or Chinese? I guarantee 73% of the US isn't Chinese..
If they have to pay for gay pride/chinese/irish/other, then those people should damn well have to put up with Christmas.
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30-11-2012, 09:47 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2012 09:51 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
The st paddy's day parade here is not done by the city. They apply for permits and do it on their own. Same in San Francisco for Chinese New Year. They get to celebrate their culture.

Name another religion that's given more deference than the Christian Faith? We had politicians arguing amongst each other who believed MORE in god...them or their opponate. At least two claimed that Jesus had told them to run for president (Bachman and Perry). Frankly, I'm sick of them crying about how unfair those evil secularists are about Christmas and how mistreated they are.


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30-11-2012, 10:49 PM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 07:05 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Our neighborhood is all decorated now which is a little weird since it's in the 70s and the grass and many trees are still green...looks a little out of place.
I live in Kansas City, and it has been unseasonably warm. It certainly doesn't feel like Christmas is just few weeks away if I can comfortably go outside without a coat. I love giving and receiving gifts, but it is really hard to get into the season when it feels like April or September. Maybe I should try praying to Father Christmas for some cold weather.
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30-11-2012, 11:17 PM
Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 09:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Why are you still talking?

Why are you still in denial?

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30-11-2012, 11:27 PM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 08:59 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 08:22 PM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  Gay Pride = Not religious.
St Paddy's Day = Not religious.
Chinese New Year = Not religious.

As none are religious, the constitution says nothing about the government funding and/or promoting them, which is why no one kicks up a fuss about them. The entire reason a fuss is made about government funding and/or promoting Christmas is because the Christians have claimed it as a religious holiday. If they went off promoting Ramadan, or some holiday promoting the Jedi Order then secular people who care about the constitution would also kick up a fuss about that.

Now, if Christians want to give up their claim on Christmas and admit they nicked it so that it is no longer associated with their religion, then I think you'll find no one could give a crap about the government getting involved and having a good ol' time.
Chinese New Years, Saint Patrick's day are both cultural holidays.
How is it perfectly fine to be fine with different cultural holidays, yet not fine with religious holidays?

The line between culture and religion is pretty slim IMO. At least with religion it effects more people (Christmas anyway) and is personal choice.

I understand that the state is suppose to be separate from religion but allowing people to erect (tehe) nativity scenes on public property is far from enacting religious legislation.
If anyone needs to cut the bullshit, it's you folk. You wanna get real? let's get real for a moment.
73% of Americans associate themselves with Christianity. 73%.
Are you saying that a government allowing a holiday for 73% of the public holiday in the public stage is unconstitutional? That's a little fucked up IMO.
73% of tax payers are Christians. How many gays or Irish or Chinese? I guarantee 73% of the US isn't Chinese..
If they have to pay for gay pride/chinese/irish/other, then those people should damn well have to put up with Christmas.



The seminal test for whether a particular activity is permissibly
promoted by a state entity is outlined, by the court case Lemon v. Kurtzman
(when a question of secular vs religious value is raised)


The Court's decision in this case established the
"Lemon test", which details the requirements for legislation
concerning religion. It consists of three prongs:


1.[font='Times New Roman'] 1. [/font]The government's action must have a secular
legislative purpose;


2.[font='Times New Roman'] 2. [/font]The government's action must not have the
primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;


3.[font='Times New Roman'] 3. [/font]The government's action must not result in an
"excessive government entanglement" with religion.





No one is asking private citizens or private businesses from
creating Christmas displays or promoting Christmas, but government facilities
and Government funds should not be used
to display or promote Christmas (or any other religious promotional display) as it fail the lemon test above.


Some facilities have adopted an open field policy where
anyone can erect a display as long as apposing religious views are all welcome.
Unfortunately, in Washington they did that and an Atheist group erected a plea
towards rational thought poster and there was a call to arms and outrage from
Fox News.


The problem with religious displays on public land is that
they cannot avoid bias towards to the views of one party and or one religious
belief at the cost of others.


I will close in saying that a logical discussion about these
subjects is always preferred; a discussion that is tempered with respect. Your
initial argument started very adversarial with cursing, so people probably
reacted strongly to your posting based on the tone of your original post.
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30-11-2012, 11:33 PM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
Does anyone else think it's kinda interesting that St Patrick's Day has been grouped (by Hedgehog and Muffs) with e.g. CNY as 'cultural' and not 'religious'?

Thought 1:
Most theists that I know would not separate their religion from their culture

Thought 2:
St. Patrick's Day is NOT religious? WTF!
Then nor is St Jesus Day.

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30-11-2012, 11:52 PM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 11:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Does anyone else think it's kinda interesting that St Patrick's Day has been grouped (by Hedgehog and Muffs) with e.g. CNY as 'cultural' and not 'religious'?

Thought 1:
Most theists that I know would not separate their religion from their culture

Thought 2:
St. Patrick's Day is NOT religious? WTF!
Then nor is St Jesus Day.

St Patrick's day has been reduced to a day of drunken debauchery. Any religious meaning in this country has long been lost and replaced with four-leafed clovers, pots of gold and leprechauns. Today, in the USA it's a cultural day to celebrate being Irish. Columbus day used to be a day to celebrate being Italian. Until he was vilified for doing pretty much far less damage than other explorers did.
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30-11-2012, 11:55 PM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
When the religious begin to erect religious symbols on government property during St. Patrick's Day. Then I'll probably take issue with that too.

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01-12-2012, 12:10 AM
RE: Just leave Christmas the fuck alone.
(30-11-2012 11:52 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 11:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Does anyone else think it's kinda interesting that St Patrick's Day has been grouped (by Hedgehog and Muffs) with e.g. CNY as 'cultural' and not 'religious'?

Thought 1:
Most theists that I know would not separate their religion from their culture

Thought 2:
St. Patrick's Day is NOT religious? WTF!
Then nor is St Jesus Day.

St Patrick's day has been reduced to a day of drunken debauchery. Any religious meaning in this country has long been lost and replaced with four-leafed clovers, pots of gold and leprechauns. Today, in the USA it's a cultural day to celebrate being Irish. Columbus day used to be a day to celebrate being Italian. Until he was vilified for doing pretty much far less damage than other explorers did.

'Reduced' or 'promoted'.

Therein lies your solution.

You Murikans get hung up on this shit because you have a constitution that creates barriers.

For most other countries, Christmas is already a day of drunken debauchery.

This I think, is Muffsy's point.

N'est–ce pas?

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