Just some thoughts.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-03-2013, 11:38 AM
Just some thoughts.
First let me start by saying that this post is not supported with hard data and it is my goal to maybe help us look at thinks another way or to atleast consider.

Let me begin with a question I have asked many Christians. If it was somehow proven that God did not exist would you still believe in him?

Out of all who I asked I seemed to get the same response "idk". This leads me to think well here's the problem. People would not accept proven truth over the false truths they were taught as a child and grew up in.

There are two ideas that popped into my mind as I thought about what was just said.

1. Using the old example which goes something like this. Would you sleep with me for 1 billion dollars ? The other person says yes. Now would you sleep with me for 1 dollar? They immediately say no what kind of person do you think I am. The questioner would now say we have established who you are now we are just negotiating.

Now heaven is the reward, science is the morality in question and the church is sex.

You see many follow the church where they say you must blindly follow the lord and that you will not understand how he works and they follow that up with the promise of heaven. So you abandon what science has been saying. If they church however said follow us blindly and God will reward you with no sickness for one day in your life. I wonder how many people would abandon science.

2. Someone asked me how could Greeks believe in Zeus. When we have proof of Jesus because it says so in the bible.

I blame this problem somewhat on the media. As I look through the guide on tv I see many shows about how God exist and even on the history channel they now have a show about the bible. How can one who believes in the bible ever think it is wrong when the tv is showcasing it as truth. There was even a time where evolution was banned from being taught. Unless someone studies it on their own they would never learn these things. It falls into whole communities believing in something and you will be shunned if you don't believe so. Where now believes are not believes but just ignorance. It is like saying I believe the sky is green. When if you just looked up you would see you just made a random guess. Simply people need to start looking up. After doing such then if you want to believe in a God then it is belief but you must understand what is his limits or is he really a God at all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Ironwall's post
07-03-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: Just some thoughts.
Or number 3. Faith

While everyone seems to search for answers and evidence, they will inevitably fall back on faith so that they can say "god can't be proven or disproven, only believed based on faith." So they set themselves up to being able to say that if any proof were presented to demonstrate god does not exist, they would cry foul and say that it is impossible since faith is the only measure by which to believe.

It is simply special pleading.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
07-03-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
(07-03-2013 11:38 AM)Ironwall Wrote:  First let me start by saying that this post is not supported with hard data and it is my goal to maybe help us look at thinks another way or to atleast consider.

Let me begin with a question I have asked many Christians. If it was somehow proven that God did not exist would you still believe in him?

Out of all who I asked I seemed to get the same response "idk". This leads me to think well here's the problem. People would not accept proven truth over the false truths they were taught as a child and grew up in.

There are two ideas that popped into my mind as I thought about what was just said.

1. Using the old example which goes something like this. Would you sleep with me for 1 billion dollars ? The other person says yes. Now would you sleep with me for 1 dollar? They immediately say no what kind of person do you think I am. The questioner would now say we have established who you are now we are just negotiating.

Now heaven is the reward, science is the morality in question and the church is sex.

You see many follow the church where they say you must blindly follow the lord and that you will not understand how he works and they follow that up with the promise of heaven. So you abandon what science has been saying. If they church however said follow us blindly and God will reward you with no sickness for one day in your life. I wonder how many people would abandon science.

2. Someone asked me how could Greeks believe in Zeus. When we have proof of Jesus because it says so in the bible.

I blame this problem somewhat on the media. As I look through the guide on tv I see many shows about how God exist and even on the history channel they now have a show about the bible. How can one who believes in the bible ever think it is wrong when the tv is showcasing it as truth. There was even a time where evolution was banned from being taught. Unless someone studies it on their own they would never learn these things. It falls into whole communities believing in something and you will be shunned if you don't believe so. Where now believes are not believes but just ignorance. It is like saying I believe the sky is green. When if you just looked up you would see you just made a random guess. Simply people need to start looking up. After doing such then if you want to believe in a God then it is belief but you must understand what is his limits or is he really a God at all.
Welcome to the forum.

Regarding when someone says "I don't know" in your first part, I tend to think they really mean "yes, but I'm not going to admit it to you."

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-03-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
(07-03-2013 11:38 AM)Ironwall Wrote:  First let me start by saying that this post is not supported with hard data and it is my goal to maybe help us look at thinks another way or to atleast consider.

Let me begin with a question I have asked many Christians. If it was somehow proven that God did not exist would you still believe in him?

Out of all who I asked I seemed to get the same response "idk". This leads me to think well here's the problem. People would not accept proven truth over the false truths they were taught as a child and grew up in.

There are two ideas that popped into my mind as I thought about what was just said.

1. Using the old example which goes something like this. Would you sleep with me for 1 billion dollars ? The other person says yes. Now would you sleep with me for 1 dollar? They immediately say no what kind of person do you think I am. The questioner would now say we have established who you are now we are just negotiating.

Now heaven is the reward, science is the morality in question and the church is sex.

You see many follow the church where they say you must blindly follow the lord and that you will not understand how he works and they follow that up with the promise of heaven. So you abandon what science has been saying. If they church however said follow us blindly and God will reward you with no sickness for one day in your life. I wonder how many people would abandon science.

2. Someone asked me how could Greeks believe in Zeus. When we have proof of Jesus because it says so in the bible.

I blame this problem somewhat on the media. As I look through the guide on tv I see many shows about how God exist and even on the history channel they now have a show about the bible. How can one who believes in the bible ever think it is wrong when the tv is showcasing it as truth. There was even a time where evolution was banned from being taught. Unless someone studies it on their own they would never learn these things. It falls into whole communities believing in something and you will be shunned if you don't believe so. Where now believes are not believes but just ignorance. It is like saying I believe the sky is green. When if you just looked up you would see you just made a random guess. Simply people need to start looking up. After doing such then if you want to believe in a God then it is belief but you must understand what is his limits or is he really a God at all.
If you could prove that God does not exist, then I would cease to believe in God.
However I have heard atheists claim that even if it could be proved that the god of the bible exists, they would still not worship such a god because that god is a jerk. I've always thought that claim was silly, It would be ridiculous for an atheist to be willing to spend an eternity in hell just to drive home the point that he disagrees with gods values.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Heywood Jahblome's post
07-03-2013, 04:12 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
(07-03-2013 03:39 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If you could prove that God does not exist, then I would cease to believe in God.

Awesome. It will never happen, of course, since a negative can't be proved. But I like your honesty.

(07-03-2013 03:39 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  However I have heard atheists claim that even if it could be proved that the god of the bible exists, they would still not worship such a god because that god is a jerk. I've always thought that claim was silly, It would be ridiculous for an atheist to be willing to spend an eternity in hell just to drive home the point that he disagrees with gods values.

I agree. I have called a few atheists out on that one myself. If Yahweh existed, in all his biblical stupidity and pettiness and orneriness, and this was a confirmed and proven fact, then yes, I'd kiss his ass and cross every t and dot every i to make sure I got to heaven instead of hell. An eternity kissing Yahweh's asinine ass is literally (yes, actually "literally") infinitely better than an eternity of hellish torture.

It will never happen, of course, since if there is an omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe, he could not be as big an idiot as Yahweh and still have accomplished so much - the entire notion of a half-wit supreme being creating such an amazing universe, an amazing earth with all its amazing life, and yet his only purpose was to pull the wings off of butterflies because he's too stupid and too vicious to rise above that level of stunted intellectual development is utterly ridiculous.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-03-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
Yes. Being an agnostic theist, if someone could present gnostic proof that was no God, then I would not believe in God anymore.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-03-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
What if God was proven to exist, and he came to you, telling you to kill your children?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-03-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
(07-03-2013 04:23 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  What if God was proven to exist, and he came to you, telling you to kill your children?
Easy.

God exists and is talking to me (I'll assume I have no reason to believe I'm crazy, or at least no way to tell if I am). Therefore, if I obey I go to heaven but if I disobey I go to hell. Furthermore, killing my children sends them to heaven too, unless they have behaved in such a way as to deserve hell - but even then, they're going to be in hell for eternity, so sending them there a few years early won't even be the tiniest tip of the largest iceberg of the time they'll spend there so they won't really notice the difference and, well, they deserved it anyway.

They die.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-03-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
(07-03-2013 04:29 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(07-03-2013 04:23 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  What if God was proven to exist, and he came to you, telling you to kill your children?
Easy.

God exists and is talking to me (I'll assume I have no reason to believe I'm crazy, or at least no way to tell if I am). Therefore, if I obey I go to heaven but if I disobey I go to hell. Furthermore, killing my children sends them to heaven too, unless they have behaved in such a way as to deserve hell - but even then, they're going to be in hell for eternity, so sending them there a few years early won't even be the tiniest tip of the largest iceberg of the time they'll spend there so they won't really notice the difference and, well, they deserved it anyway.

They die.
I'll make this even easier for you. If you're referring to the God of the Bible... as written in scripture... then 1) He would never ask this of you or 2) if He did, He would stop you before you did it.

There is nothing to worry about.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-03-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: Just some thoughts.
Aabit: Egyptian. Goddess of song, music, and the arts.
Aah: Egyptian. God of the moon, responsible for the creation of the Egyptian calendar, which has 30 days per month and is 12 months long. Patron of the student or learner.
Abarta: Celtic. A member of the Tuatha Dé Danann ("People of the goddess Danu") an Irish race of gods, founded by the goddess Danu. These gods, who originally lived on 'the islands in the west', had perfected the use of magic. Abarta is associated with teamwork, and the destructive nature of jealousy.
Acat: Mayan. God of tatooers.
Accasbel: Celtic. An early God of meade or wine, thought to have created the first tavern or pub. Associated with the wine harvest.
Achiyalatopa: North American (Zuni). A powerful celestial monster who hurls feathers made of flint knives.
Achtland: Celtic. Queen goddess infamous for her displeasure in what she found available to her among human men. When she was approached by one of the Tuatha Dé Danann (a giant from the faery realm), she fell in love with him. She is associated with magic and sex.
Addanc: Celtic. A primordial giant/god/lake monster described alternately as resembling a crocodile, beaver or dwarf-like creature, and is sometimes said to be a demon. Associated with erasing unwanted events or persons from one's mind.
Adekagagwaa: North American (Iroquois). The spiritual embodiment of summer, who rests in the southern skys during the winter months.
Aditi: Indian. Mother of the celestial gods, the synthesis of all things. Associated with mystic speech, space, consciousness, the past, the future, and fertility.
Adroa: Central African. God of law, social order, and death. Depicted as tall, his good and bad aspects are shown as two half bodies: the evil one being short and coal black while his good aspect is tall and white.
Adsullata: Celtic. A continental river goddess, associated with hot springs, solar magic and purification.
Aerten: Celtic. Goddess of fate who ruled over the outcome of war between several Celtic clans. Her symbol was the double-bladed axe, and she was associated with both overcoming enemies, and peace.
Aesun: Celtic. Creation god whose name means "to be."
Aeval: Celtic. The Fairy Queen of Thomond in Irish mythology; held a midnight court to determine if husbands were satisfying their wives' sexual needs or not. Associated with sex, lust, wisdom, and magic.
Agdistis: Greek. A powerful hermaphroditic daemon; chaotic, neither good nor evil, but impossible to control, containing all of the powers of creation within his/her body and using these powers to wreak havoc.
Agni: Indian. God with three forms: fire, lightning and the sun. He is ever-young, because the fire is re-lit every day, yet he is also immortal.
Agrona: Celtic Goddess of slaughter, war, and carnage.
Ah Puch: Mayan. The God of death and King of Metnal, the underworld. He was depicted as a skeleton or corpse adorned with bells, sometimes the head of an owl.
Ahsonnutli: North American (Navajo). Hermaphroditic deity who helped create the sky and the earth. He produced four giants to hold up the the sky, one in each corner: north, south, east, and west.
Ahura Mazda: Persian. The sky god of order, creator of heaven and earth and upholder of asa (rightness, truth) and opposer of Ahriman (the principle of evil).
Aibell: Celtic. Fairy goddess whose played a magic harp which human ears could not hear or else the eavesdropper would soon die. Associated with music, stones and leaves, protection, and ecological magic.
Aibheaog: Celtic. Goddess of fire whose healing powers were effective against toothache. Associated with midsummer well rituals.
Aife: Celtic. A warrior goddess and queen of the Isle of Shadow. She commanded a legion of fierce horsewomen, and was not vulnerable to magic. Associated with general knowledge, protection, path-working, and teaching.
Aimend: Celtic. Sun goddess thought to be daughter of the king of the region known as Corco Loidhe.
Aine of Knockaine: Celtic. Moon goddess associated with the summer solstice, cattle, and crops.
Airmid: Celtic. Goddess of the healing arts and medicine, associated with family loyalty, healing, learning, and inspiration to craftsmen.
Airseku: North American (Huron). The Great Spirit god, called upon when threatened or in times of urgent need.
Aker: Egyptian. God of the horizon; one of the earliest gods worshipped. Guardian of the entrance and exit to the underworld.
Akka: Finno-Ugrian. Goddess helpful for pregnant women, and after a birth, a woman would eat a special porridge dedicated to her.
Aktunowihio: North American (Cheyenne). Subterranean earth mother; the soul of the earth.
Akuj: Kenyan. God of divination.
Ala: Nigerian. Also known as Ale or Ane, she was a popular Earth Mother, creator goddess and Queen of the Dead. Associated with morality, oaths, community laws, and harvests.
Alberich: Germanic. A legendary sorcerer, king of the elves and dwarfs, guardian of treasures including Tarnkappe, a cape of invisibility.
Albion: Celtic. Son of a forgotten sea god who was said to rule the Celtic world. He may have been part of a lost creation myth as his name is the most ancient name for Great Britain.
Alisanos: Celtic. A local fertility god in Gaul, worshipped in what are now the Côte-d'Or in Burgundy and at Aix-en-Provence. May have been associated with mountain-ash and rowan trees.
Allah: Arab. The Prophet Muhammad declared Allah the one and only god (of the Islam) in the 7th century CE. In pre-Islamic times, Allah was the supreme creator-god of the Arabs. The goddesses Allat, Manat, and al-Uzza were considered to be his daughters.
Almha: Celtic. Goddess of the Tuatha De Danann about whom little is known today. A southern Irish hill was named after her.
Ama-no-Uzume: Japanese. Fertility goddess of dawn and revelry in the Shinto religion.
Amaterasu: Japanese. A sun goddess and perhaps the most important Shinto deity, born from the left eye of Izanagi as he purified himself in a river and went on to become the ruler of the Higher Celestial Plain.
Amatsu-Kami: Japanese. The gods of heaven (distinguished from the gods of earth).
Amaunet: Egyptian. Mother goddess who breathes new life into things with her northern winds. Her name means "The Hidden One," and she is portrayed as a snake or a snake-head on which the crown of Lower Egypt rests.
Ambisagrus: Celtic. A weather god later equated with the Roman Jupiter. Associated with magic, leadership, and climate changes.
Amen: Egyptian. "Great Father" god whose name means "the hidden one"; associated with the wind, fertility, sex, and agriculture.
Ament: Egyptian. Goddess of the Underworld who greeted all newly dead with bread and water. If they ate and drank, they were not allowed to return to the land of the living.
Ami: Egyptian. God of fire.
Amida-nyorai: Japanese. An aspect of the Buddha, associated with forgiveness and protection.
Ami Neter: Egyptian. Singing god of the winds.
Ami Pi: Egyptian. A lion god.
Amitolane: North American (Zuni). God of rainbows.
Amu: Egyptian. God of the dawn.
Amun: Egyptian. God of air, the breath of life, he gradually rose to become one of the most important deities in ancient Egypt, before fading into obscurity.
Amutnen: Egyptian. Goddess of cows that provide milk.
An: Sumerian. A progenitor god who, long with Ninhursag, probably created the other gods in the Sumerian pantheon. His wife may have been Nammu.
Anat: Sumerian. Called the Lady of Heaven and Mistress of all gods; a wild and furious warrior.
Anayaroli: The Temne, (west African). A river demon associated with wealth.
Ancasta: Celtic. Goddess worshipped in Roman Britain, possibly associated with the river Itchen.
Andraste: Celtic. War goddess invoked to fight against the Roman occupation of Britain. Associated with overcoming enemies.
Andvari: Norse. A dwarf who lived underneath a waterfall and had the power to change himself into a fish at will. He had a magical ring named Andvarinaut, which helped him become wealthy. Also known as Alberich.
Angpetu Wi: North American (Dakota). God of the sun.
Angus Mac Og: Celtic. God of love, youth and poetic inspiration. He is said to have four birds symbolizing kisses flying about his head (whence, it is believed, the xxxx's symbolizing kisses at the end of lovers' letters come from.)
Anhur: Egyptian. God of the hunt and of war; associated with the sky and sun.
Anpao: North American (Dakota). A two-faced deity who represents the spirit of the dawn.
Anqet: Egyptian. Water goddess of the island of Sahal; associated with lust, intelligence, medicine, protection, death and cemeteries.
Anshar: Akkadian. A sky god, husband of his sister Kishar. Together, they might represent heaven and earth.
Anu: Sumerian. A sky-god, the god of heaven, lord of constellations, king of gods, spirits and demons, residing in the highest heavenly regions. He had the power to judge those who had committed crimes; created the stars as soldiers to destroy the wicked.
Anubis: Egyptian. A jackal-headed god associated with mummification and the afterlife in ancient Egyptian mythology.
Ao: Chinese. Four dragon gods, each overseeing a portion of the earth and sea. There names were Ao Ch'in, Ao Kuang, Ao Jun and Ao Shun.
Apep: Egyptian. An evil demon, the deification of darkness and chaos; associated with darkness, death, eclipses and the underworld.
Aphrodite: Greek. Goddess of love, lust, and beauty. Often depicted with the sea, dolphins, doves, swans, pomegranates, apples, myrtle, rose and lime trees, clams, scallop shells and pearls. Same as the Roman goddess Venus.
Apit: Egyptian. Goddess of nursing mothers.
Apollo: Greek. God of light and the sun, prophecy and truth, music, archery, poetry, and the arts, medicine and healing; able to bring ill-health and deadly plague as well as cure disease.
Apsu: Sumerian. Ruler of gods and underworld oceans; source of lakes, springs, rivers, wells, and other sources of fresh water. Father of Lahmu, Lahamu, Anshar and Kishar. Killed by Ea.
Apuat: Egyptian. God who guides souls to their final resting place.
Aput: Egyptian. Messinger god.
Arawn: Celtic (Wales). King of the otherworld realm of Annwn, ruled over the dead. Associated with reincarnation, spirit contact, revenge, war, terror, magical names, and strengthening friendships.
Ard Greimme: Celtic (Scotland). Sun god associated with magic.
Ares: Greek. Often referred to as the Olympian god of warfare, he is more accurately the god of savage warfare, or bloodlust, or slaughter personified. Son of Zeus and Hera; savior of cities and father of victory.
Ardwinna: Celtic (Britain). Eponymous goddess of the Ardennes Forest and region, represented as a huntress riding a boar. Later assimilated into the Gallo-Roman mythology of goddess Diana.
Ariadne: Greek and Celtic. The only Greek goddess known to have been worshipped in Celtic Gaul. In Greek mythology, she was daughter of King Minos of Crete and his queen, Pasiphaë, daughter of Helios, the Sun-titan. She aided Theseus in overcoming the Minotaur and later became the consort of the god Dionysus.
Arianrhod: Celtic (Wales). Associated with fertility, beauty, and reincarnation, she was daughter of Dôn and sister of Gwydion and Gilfaethwy. In the Mabinogi her uncle Math ap Mathonwy is the King of Gwynedd, and during the course of the story she gives birth to two sons, Dylan Eil Ton and Lleu Llaw Gyffes, through magical means.
Arnamentia: Celtic. Goddess of spring waters who was once a minor solar deity. Associated with purification and healing.
Artaius: Celtic. God of sheep and cattle herders from Celtic Gaul. Later, the Romans identified him with Mercury. Associated with cattle and sheep.
Artemis: Greek. Daughter of Zeus and Leto, twin sister of Apollo, she was a hunter and a virgin, the goddess of forests, hills, and transitions -- including childbirth. Often depicted as carrying a bow and arrows, deer and cypress were sacred to her. Called Diana by the Romans.
Artio: Celtic. Goddess of the bear, worshipped at Berne, Switzerland. Goddess of fertility and wildlife, usually depicted as being surrounded by animals and full baskets. Associated with geode stones, the bear, claws and teeth; also with fertility, courage, and strength.
Aryaman: Indian. God whose name name signifies "bosom friend," but is literally "noble one." Chief of the manes, the Milky Way is supposed to be his path.
Asa: Kenyan. Father God, "the strong lord," who was associated with mercy, help, and surviving the impossible.
Asase: West African. Fertility goddess responsible for the creation of humans and receiver of them at death; associated with cultivation and the harvest.
Asbit: Egyptian. Goddess of fire.
Asclepius: Greek. A demigod of medicine and healing, represents the healing aspect of the medical arts. Apollo's son.
Aseb. Egyptian. God of fire.
Ashkit: Egyptian. Wind goddess.
Ashu: Egyptian. Wind goddess.
Asvins: Indian. Goddess of the clouds, symbolizing the shining of sunrise and sunset, appearing in the sky before the dawn in a golden chariot, bringing treasures to men and averting misfortune and sickness.
Ataentsic: North American (Iroquois). Sky goddess who fell to the earth at the time of creation. Associated with marriage, childbirth, and feminine pursuits.
Aten: Egyptian. The sun god; originally an aspect of Ra. He became the deity of the monotheistic religion of Amenhotep IV, who took the name Akhenaten.
Athena: Greek. Goddess of war, wisdom, and crafts; daughter of Zeus, and Metis. The patron goddess of Athens, offering the gift of the olive tree. Same as Roman goddess Minerva.
Athirat (Asherah): Canaanite. Equated with the Milky Way, she was goddess of the sea, particularly along the shore, of the fertility of humanity, flocks, and crops, and of great wisdom.
Atho: Finno-Ugrian. Horned god associated with the seas and water.
Athtart: Phonecian. Connected with fertility, sexuality, passion, and war, her symbols were the lion, the horse, the sphinx, the dove, and a star within a circle indicating the planet Venus. Pictorial representations often show her naked.
Atlas: Greek. Leader of the Titans who fought against the gods; punished by Zeus to carry the vault of the sky on his shoulders, in order to to prevent the two from resuming their primordial embrace.
Atum: Egyptian. Deity considered the 'complete one'; the finisher of the world, all things being made of his flesh.
Aua: Egyptian. God of gifts and gift giving.
Auit: Egyptian. Goddess of children and nurses.
Awonawilona: North American (Zuni). Sun god, creator of the sky, earth, and oceans.



Look at all the Gods that were worshipped much like today..... THAT NOBODY WORSHIPS ANYMORE..... and that is just the A's took from this website.

http://machineslikeus.com/news/global-gods


So come on... HELLO!!!!!!!! Nobody worships those gods anymore and (hopefully) one day nobody will worship todays gods.

They are a creation of humans.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: