Justification for NTS?
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12-10-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Justification for NTS?
(12-10-2015 04:15 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  KC, I apologise to you.

I didn't see you had written "no true scotsman" at the top of your post.

I still can't make head nor tail of what you are saying. Could you reword it? Huh

ETA: This is just my understanding. KC can confirm or deny. Since he is a True Calvinist ™.

Calvinists have a problem with people who leave the faith since they claim that the "elect", who will go to heaven and spend eternity praising God have been picked by God already. They also claim that it is possible for them to know that they are elect.

As such, people who *know* they are saved but later decide it was all bollocks are a bit of a problem, and the standard line is that they were never really believers anyway. They thought they were but deep down they weren't. So they thought they were elect, knew it in fact, according to the dogma that humans can know these things, and then yeah, they weren't *actually* believers (even though they themselves thought they were) so they left Calvinism.

The problem with *that* is, the remaining True Believers ™ are playing No True Scotsman. They claim now not only to know that they are elect but also to know that those non-elect-who-self-selected-out were only pretending and were not True Christians. Which is a bit of an insult... well maybe more of a compliment... to the ex-true believer.

Of course, they rightly get chirped for it.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-10-2015, 05:12 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2015 05:15 PM by WillemRM.)
RE: Justification for NTS?
lost my text sorry
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12-10-2015, 11:59 PM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 12:09 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Justification for NTS?
(12-10-2015 04:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 04:15 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  KC, I apologise to you.

I didn't see you had written "no true scotsman" at the top of your post.

I still can't make head nor tail of what you are saying. Could you reword it? Huh

ETA: This is just my understanding. KC can confirm or deny. Since he is a True Calvinist ™.

Calvinists have a problem with people who leave the faith since they claim that the "elect", who will go to heaven and spend eternity praising God have been picked by God already. They also claim that it is possible for them to know that they are elect.

As such, people who *know* they are saved but later decide it was all bollocks are a bit of a problem, and the standard line is that they were never really believers anyway. They thought they were but deep down they weren't. So they thought they were elect, knew it in fact, according to the dogma that humans can know these things, and then yeah, they weren't *actually* believers (even though they themselves thought they were) so they left Calvinism.

The problem with *that* is, the remaining True Believers ™ are playing No True Scotsman. They claim now not only to know that they are elect but also to know that those non-elect-who-self-selected-out were only pretending and were not True Christians. Which is a bit of an insult... well maybe more of a compliment... to the ex-true believer.

Of course, they rightly get chirped for it.

Thanks Big Grin

So there's a man in the sky who chooses (using unknowable criteria) which of his creation will get to live with him, after they die, in his eternal theme park. Yeah, right.
As if.

Why Calvinists have the gall, and the imagination, to believe they are at the centre of the universe, is beyond me. I pity their children. Poor kids can't help but become egocentric tossers.
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13-10-2015, 12:25 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 12:29 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Justification for NTS?
You were misdiagnosed by the doctor.

The problem with the idea is clarifying who has any justification to diagnose you a Christian? Does yourself, your actions, your preacher, the pope, JEEEEsus, good things happening to you or anything else fit the criteria for what "diagnoses" you Christian?

A problem of True Scotsmaning is proclaiming one's own view is what the conciseness view is. Yet how does one know what the real consensus or concept for valid stance is? Using the same pieces of evidences you can give varying degrees of all types of responses.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-10-2015, 01:13 AM
RE: Justification for NTS?
Nice thread, KC. It got people thinking.

The upshot seems to be that there is no clear and agreed definition of 'christian', unlike cancer.

Without a definition there can be no diagnosis of this specific disease.

There is also a mismatch in the analogy in that one cannot 'catch' cancer; meaning that it (cancer) is genetic (or at least, there's a genetic predisposition for it) as opposed to memetic.

So one can probably be diagnosed as memetically damaged by the religion-virus because the symptoms are more well defined but not christianity in particular.

I guess this is why the Islam virus can 'cure' the christianity virus with regard to symptoms but only the science, logic and reason treatment program can combat the underlying disease.

Consider

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13-10-2015, 06:02 AM
RE: Justification for NTS?
The "once a Christian ALWAYS a Christian" bit was made up by the same people that made up the xtian god in the first place -- leaving the whole thing up for serious scrutiny.

....

It's all bullshit, if ya ask me....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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13-10-2015, 06:23 AM
RE: Justification for NTS?
Man, I want a CAT scan for Holy Spirit. Stat. Dodgy

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13-10-2015, 06:51 AM
RE: Justification for NTS?
(12-10-2015 11:59 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 04:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  ETA: This is just my understanding. KC can confirm or deny. Since he is a True Calvinist ™.

Calvinists have a problem with people who leave the faith since they claim that the "elect", who will go to heaven and spend eternity praising God have been picked by God already. They also claim that it is possible for them to know that they are elect.

As such, people who *know* they are saved but later decide it was all bollocks are a bit of a problem, and the standard line is that they were never really believers anyway. They thought they were but deep down they weren't. So they thought they were elect, knew it in fact, according to the dogma that humans can know these things, and then yeah, they weren't *actually* believers (even though they themselves thought they were) so they left Calvinism.

The problem with *that* is, the remaining True Believers ™ are playing No True Scotsman. They claim now not only to know that they are elect but also to know that those non-elect-who-self-selected-out were only pretending and were not True Christians. Which is a bit of an insult... well maybe more of a compliment... to the ex-true believer.

Of course, they rightly get chirped for it.

Thanks Big Grin

So there's a man in the sky who chooses (using unknowable criteria) which of his creation will get to live with him, after they die, in his eternal theme park. Yeah, right.
As if.

Why Calvinists have the gall, and the imagination, to believe they are at the centre of the universe, is beyond me. I pity their children. Poor kids can't help but become egocentric tossers.

Go rape a porcupine.

Don't dare judge my parenting on a adjective that I use to describe myself.

You have no idea what I teach my kids, asshole.

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13-10-2015, 07:10 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 07:27 AM by Octapulse.)
RE: Justification for NTS?
(12-10-2015 02:26 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 01:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  They decided a biopsy would be needless, dangerous, and invasive since the docs have the evidence they need to make an informed medical decision.

Your doctors never hear tell of needle biopsies? PET scans? There is at least the theoretical possibility of doing these tests to prove or disprove the cancer hypothesis. What is the equivalent for Christianity?

Doc

Biblically speaking, the bible says"you will know them by their fruit" a reference to the fruit of the Spirit in the book of Galatians (Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control). All factors that I demonstrated abundantly while I was a christian . . .

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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13-10-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Justification for NTS?
(13-10-2015 06:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 11:59 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Thanks Big Grin

So there's a man in the sky who chooses (using unknowable criteria) which of his creation will get to live with him, after they die, in his eternal theme park. Yeah, right.
As if.

Why Calvinists have the gall, and the imagination, to believe they are at the centre of the universe, is beyond me. I pity their children. Poor kids can't help but become egocentric tossers.

Go rape a porcupine.

Don't dare judge my parenting on a adjective that I use to describe myself.

You have no idea what I teach my kids, asshole.

And this is the exact opposite of the fruit of the Spirit. How do we know Kingschosen is a true christian? Consider

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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