Justification of hell?
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13-09-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 06:43 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Punishment for the crime of not believing the vile and unbelievable. Punishment for the choice to discard evil deeds, evil thoughts, and evil books or punishment for the inability to hold on to an ever dwindling belief.

Funny how the creator of the universe would punish those who doubt it's existence, having created a universe that invites more doubt the more you learn about it. This irony is lost on the faithful... Drinking Beverage

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13-09-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 06:43 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Wouldn't the time itself cause a non-diminishing level of discomfort?

Yes I think it would. However not ever allowing a damned soul into heaven isn't some cruel or abusive act. If you throw a party and don't invite someone, are you being cruel or abusive to them?
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13-09-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 01:48 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 06:43 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Wouldn't the time itself cause a non-diminishing level of discomfort?

Yes I think it would. However not ever allowing a damned soul into heaven isn't some cruel or abusive act. If you throw a party and don't invite someone, are you being cruel or abusive to them?

Fallacy of the false analogy.
The party thrower is said to be omniscient.
Purposely making people for one party, then making it impossible for them to attend, and by not attending, making the only (other) possible outcome, a punishment, is a malevolent evil act. It's also complete bullshit. Sheol was not hell. "Coming and going" (places) in a spaceless-timeless environment is meaningless. Needs time to get there, space to be there. Drivel. Pure and simple. 100 % crap.

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13-09-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 01:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 01:48 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Yes I think it would. However not ever allowing a damned soul into heaven isn't some cruel or abusive act. If you throw a party and don't invite someone, are you being cruel or abusive to them?

Fallacy of the false analogy.
The party thrower is said to be omniscient.
Purposely making people for one party, then making it impossible for them to attend, and by not attending, making the only (other) possible outcome, a punishment, is a malevolent evil act. It's also complete bullshit. Sheol was not hell. "Coming and going" (places) in a spaceless-timeless environment is meaningless. Needs time to get there, space to be there. Drivel. Pure and simple. 100 % crap.

Bucky

Lets assume for a moment that Heaven, Hell and God(not any god in particular) actually exist. Further lets assume that the difference between Heaven and Hell is one is a cool party and the other party completely sucks eggs(no pain punishment, but a party like one you'd throw).

Why is God obligated to let you into the cool party?
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13-09-2013, 02:36 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 02:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 01:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Fallacy of the false analogy.
The party thrower is said to be omniscient.
Purposely making people for one party, then making it impossible for them to attend, and by not attending, making the only (other) possible outcome, a punishment, is a malevolent evil act. It's also complete bullshit. Sheol was not hell. "Coming and going" (places) in a spaceless-timeless environment is meaningless. Needs time to get there, space to be there. Drivel. Pure and simple. 100 % crap.

Bucky

Lets assume for a moment that Heaven, Hell and God(not any god in particular) actually exist. Further lets assume that the difference between Heaven and Hell is one is a cool party and the other party completely sucks eggs(no pain punishment, but a party like one you'd throw).

Why is God obligated to let you into the cool party?

Let's assume the pink unicorns are having a party and the sparkly blue unicorns are sad.

Pure evil. Drinking Beverage

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13-09-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 02:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  Let's assume the pink unicorns are having a party and the sparkly blue unicorns are sad.

Pure evil. Drinking Beverage

Now this discussion is finally getting reasonable. Obviously, the best thing is to give the pink unicorns a poorly Xeroxed party flier, with instructions to spend thousands of years trying to get the blue unicorns to turn pink. All the while, the blue unicorns are looking at the pink unicorns and saying "You're not even a unicorn, just a donkey with a dunce cap on."

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13-09-2013, 02:49 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 02:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 02:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Bucky

Lets assume for a moment that Heaven, Hell and God(not any god in particular) actually exist. Further lets assume that the difference between Heaven and Hell is one is a cool party and the other party completely sucks eggs(no pain punishment, but a party like one you'd throw).

Why is God obligated to let you into the cool party?

Let's assume the pink unicorns are having a party and the sparkly blue unicorns are sad.

Pure evil. Drinking Beverage

You an Bucky need to read the thread if you are going to be able to give coherent responses.

Let me summarize some things for you.

I pointed out that a finite punishment could be spread over an infinite period of time. Another poster pointed out that not being in heaven is essentially a punishment itself. I agreed with that poster. However not being in heaven isn't the same as being tormented. God can only said to be cruel by giving you an infinite amount of torment. If He gives a finite amount of torment but never lets you into heaven, that's fine because He is under no moral obligation to let you into heaven.

The ticket to Heaven is something earned by you.....not an entitlement to be given to you simply because you were created.
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13-09-2013, 02:51 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 02:49 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 02:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  Let's assume the pink unicorns are having a party and the sparkly blue unicorns are sad.

Pure evil. Drinking Beverage

You an Bucky need to read the thread if you are going to be able to give coherent responses.

Let me summarize some things for you.

I pointed out that a finite punishment could be spread over an infinite period of time. Another poster pointed out that not being in heaven is essentially a punishment itself. I agreed with that poster. However not being in heaven isn't the same as being tormented. God can only said to be cruel by giving you an infinite amount of torment. If He gives a finite amount of torment but never lets you into heaven, that's fine because He is under no moral obligation to let you into heaven.

The ticket to Heaven is something earned by you.....not an entitlement to be given to you simply because you were created.

There is no evidence for the existence of any of that, so unicorns.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-09-2013, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2013 03:01 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 02:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 02:49 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You an Bucky need to read the thread if you are going to be able to give coherent responses.

Let me summarize some things for you.

I pointed out that a finite punishment could be spread over an infinite period of time. Another poster pointed out that not being in heaven is essentially a punishment itself. I agreed with that poster. However not being in heaven isn't the same as being tormented. God can only said to be cruel by giving you an infinite amount of torment. If He gives a finite amount of torment but never lets you into heaven, that's fine because He is under no moral obligation to let you into heaven.

The ticket to Heaven is something earned by you.....not an entitlement to be given to you simply because you were created.

There is no evidence for the existence of any of that, so unicorns.

Were are having a discussion and in order to do so certain assumptions are made. The OP is essentially saying, even if we assume God exists, Hell still can't be morally justified. We are discussing if an eternal hell, if eternal punishment can ever be justified. It doesn't matter whether God, Heaven, or Hell actually exist.

Why do you have to come in here and retard it all up?
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13-09-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: Justification of hell?
(13-09-2013 02:56 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 02:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence for the existence of any of that, so unicorns.

Were are having a discussion and in order to do so certain assumptions are made.

Why do you have to come in here and retard it all up?

He has given as much proof of Unicorns as you have of hell.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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