Kansas takes away teacher tenure
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07-04-2014, 08:38 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
Crosses Kansas off the list of places I'd ever want to live....

Ok, it was nearly at the bottom of the list anyway.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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07-04-2014, 08:48 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 08:38 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Crosses Kansas off the list of places I'd ever want to live....

Ok, it was nearly at the bottom of the list anyway.

Fly-over country? Naw no thanks.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-04-2014, 10:08 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 01:37 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I wish things hadn't come to this but here it is.

Our education system sucks. We spend more per pupil than any other western nation and still get lackluster results. It's reaching a breaking point and something has to be done.

It's hard to say but I think ending tenure for poor performing teachers is a step in the right direction. But it's but one thing of several that need to be done, including a serious bloodletting of administrative bureaucrats in the school systems as well as leaving a few obnoxious, disruptive children behind so we can concentrate on the process of educating the ones who really want to learn. It's gonna really take a lot of hard work and sacrifices to the the US public education system back on track.

Before you make any more comments, and stoke my ire anymore than you have, please take 7 minutes and watch this video. Maybe then you will have a better view of the US education system. Sure, we could spend a lot less money on education if we only educated the best and brightest like other countries, but would you feel as a parent if your kid was rejected from attending a good school because they were not intelligent enough, blind, deaf, had a learning disability, etc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9UVg-TdH0

Now, once you have watched that and are better informed, we can have a debate about what tenure means and the history behind it. Do no forget that the things you take for granted---shorter work days, decent pay, and safe working conditions--were from unions.
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07-04-2014, 10:11 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 01:39 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 01:01 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Please explain Tenure to a non murican, it seems like academic nepotism to me on the surface.

It kind of IS academic nepotism!

It is nothing like nepotism. Please educate yourself before making an asinine response, or ask questions to become better informed.
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07-04-2014, 10:30 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 01:01 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Please explain Tenure to a non murican, it seems like academic nepotism to me on the surface.

Here's a short run-down before I head to bed.

Tenure is granted after a probationary period--usually this is anywhere from spending 3-7 years at the same school. After this time, a teacher can become tenured. This is a protection through due-process. A teacher without tenure can be fired at anytime, and given no reason. As a science teacher in the bible belt, this time period can be a tad bit perilous. Evolution is a dirty word and parents do not like that I teach it. If they raised enough fuss, or the administration did not like what i was teaching, or if some school board members disagreed, then I lose my job.

Tenure gives due-process protection. After I would become tenured, I would have to be given a reason on why I was terminated and I would be able to appeal this. The school would have to provide evidence related to the termination.

As someone that loved education and knowledge, I chose to pursue a masters degree right after college. Just like most jobs, the higher degree you have, the more you get paid. Down the road, the school may decide I am too expensive and hire a newly minted college grad to cheaply take my place. Tenure would protect against this.

Tenure protects teachers from politics, discrimination, and many other things. It allows teachers to do what they have been trained to do--TEACH!

Too much emphasis is placed on tenure protecting 'bad' teachers. What in the hell defines a 'bad' teacher? Standardized test scores on multiple choice tests? A popularity vote? How many A's they give?

Everyone has had a teacher that has changed their life in a positive way. Maybe this teacher made you think outside of the box and look at the world in a different way. It might be that the teacher was able to teach that way because they weren't always worried about walking on eggshells and making the wrong parent or administrator upset.

Every job has its benefits and drawbacks. Teaching does not pay well. I work a huge amount of hours that no one sees. I come on forums often to find new ideas, methods, techniques--it takes a lot of time and thought. One of the benefits of teaching is attaining tenure and having that job security.

I would be willing to answer any questions you have on the subject.
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07-04-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 01:37 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 11:55 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  In another blow by my state's right wing legislature, the house and senate voted to abolish tenure for teachers. This was a rider to a school funding bill, and the right wingers wouldn't pass this funding bill without attaching their little pet project.

What does this mean?

If I teach something parents/school board/administration do not like(evolution), I can be fired at anytime and not be given any cause.

When I complete my master's degree and earn more money, I can be fired, without any cause given, for a newly out of college teacher that costs less.

My rights to freedom of speech are severely hampered. If it was found out that I was an atheist, I assure you that it would likely end up in me losing my job.

If a parent thinks I am unfair to their child in academics or in coaching and that parent raises a big enough fuss or has the right connections, I can be fired with no cause given.

Also, my state has passed legislation in at least one house that would allow for concealed carry anywhere--public buildings, bars, etc.

A couple months ago the house passed legislation allowing business owners the ability to openly discriminate against gay couples and have no legal problems.

A few months ago my state sent a letter to the EPA saying that they did not agree with the mandates imposed because 'climate-science' had lots of holes in it.

CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored

My brain has been fried. Seriously, What The Fuck?

I wish things hadn't come to this but here it is.

Our education system sucks. We spend more per pupil than any other western nation and still get lackluster results. It's reaching a breaking point and something has to be done.

It's hard to say but I think ending tenure for poor performing teachers is a step in the right direction. But it's but one thing of several that need to be done, including a serious bloodletting of administrative bureaucrats in the school systems as well as leaving a few obnoxious, disruptive children behind so we can concentrate on the process of educating the ones who really want to learn. It's gonna really take a lot of hard work and sacrifices to the the US public education system back on track.

I think it has nothing to do with the schools. It's the culture and (lack of) structure at home. People who REALLY want to learn about something can and do learn. The cultures that value learning (for example the Asians) do very well in the US system. "Pinhead" and "eggheads" are made fun of. There is a theme of anti-intellectualism running through US culture, (IMO). The teachers are convenient scape-goats. I learned what I was interested in, pretty much in spite of my teachers.

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07-04-2014, 11:15 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 10:11 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 01:39 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  It kind of IS academic nepotism!

It is nothing like nepotism. Please educate yourself before making an asinine response, or ask questions to become better informed.

The part of my post you felt necessary to cut was "please explain" , and if your unable to detect sarcasm then perhaps you should spend more time on the internet to become better informed about it.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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08-04-2014, 12:19 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
Quote:It's hard to say but I think ending tenure for poor performing teachers is a step in the right direction.


I never thought you were so naive as to believe that is the purpose?

50% of teachers quit the profession within 5 years anyway. The job sucks.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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08-04-2014, 12:29 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
I believe this is the last jolt to taking the art out of the teacher and teaching.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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08-04-2014, 05:34 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2014 05:37 AM by jaguar3030.)
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 11:15 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 10:11 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  It is nothing like nepotism. Please educate yourself before making an asinine response, or ask questions to become better informed.

The part of my post you felt necessary to cut was "please explain" , and if your unable to detect sarcasm then perhaps you should spend more time on the internet to become better informed about it.

Uhhh, spore, how about you read it again. I quoted "Carlos the bugsmasher." I did not quote you in that reply. There is a lengthy post that explains tenure, as per your question.

Maybe you should spend more time on forums to understand how they work?

Facepalm
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