Kansas takes away teacher tenure
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08-04-2014, 05:47 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 10:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think it has nothing to do with the schools. It's the culture and (lack of) structure at home. People who REALLY want to learn about something can and do learn. The cultures that value learning (for example the Asians) do very well in the US system. "Pinhead" and "eggheads" are made fun of. There is a theme of anti-intellectualism running through US culture, (IMO). The teachers are convenient scape-goats. I learned what I was interested in, pretty much in spite of my teachers.

A+ for a great reply!

I often see kids being made fun of because they are intelligent and want to learn. I tell those kids, "someday you'll be their boss, remember that."

I have often heard that the blame solely rests on teachers because it is their job to engage and inspire every learner. Of course that is the goal of every educator, but it becomes very difficult when there is no emphasis on education at home, or in the culture as a whole.

I have had several foreign exchange students in my classes. They like the being in a US classroom compared to the ones in their respective countries
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08-04-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 10:30 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  I would be willing to answer any questions you have on the subject.

What are the disadvantages of tenure systems?
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08-04-2014, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2014 10:44 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(07-04-2014 10:08 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 01:37 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I wish things hadn't come to this but here it is.

Our education system sucks. We spend more per pupil than any other western nation and still get lackluster results. It's reaching a breaking point and something has to be done.

It's hard to say but I think ending tenure for poor performing teachers is a step in the right direction. But it's but one thing of several that need to be done, including a serious bloodletting of administrative bureaucrats in the school systems as well as leaving a few obnoxious, disruptive children behind so we can concentrate on the process of educating the ones who really want to learn. It's gonna really take a lot of hard work and sacrifices to the the US public education system back on track.

Before you make any more comments, and stoke my ire anymore than you have, please take 7 minutes and watch this video. Maybe then you will have a better view of the US education system. Sure, we could spend a lot less money on education if we only educated the best and brightest like other countries, but would you feel as a parent if your kid was rejected from attending a good school because they were not intelligent enough, blind, deaf, had a learning disability, etc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9UVg-TdH0

Now, once you have watched that and are better informed, we can have a debate about what tenure means and the history behind it. Do no forget that the things you take for granted---shorter work days, decent pay, and safe working conditions--were from unions.


That movie is basically a band aid for a poor report card. It states lessons that can be learned from public education' spoor performance and still learns nothing from it, then has the tamarity to brag about crappy scores remaining more or less the same despite a 200% increase in spending per student over the past 30 years!

Given this, it's obvious that throwing more money at the problem simply is t going to fix it.

No, I'd keep spending on public education at the same levels, but I would do a bloodletting on bureaucrats, fire poor performing teachers, oh and I would allow for the use of vouchers and earmark education funds to each student so they and their parents can make the most of each tax dollar spent on them.

Got a teacher that does a great job? Pay them better! Got a lousy one? Pay them less! Money can shame and motivate a lot of people to clean up their act fast and deliver!

I'd say a few public school bureaucrat and leaders of a teachers union could benefit from the lessons of this classic speech from Glengarry Glenn Ross. Hell, ANY professional could take these lessons to heart.





I'd also set test standards and enforce them. Don't pass? You fail. Simple as that. Cheat on the test, you get a zero and fail. A little shame on some narcissistic, poor performing student could go along way and pay dividends for them later on in life. The first step to recreating a stellar public school system is to admit we suck, then make the changes.


Parents, you are also responsible for the education of your child. Are you helping them with their homework? Are you holding them accountable for lousy grades and providing incentives for good performance? No? Then you're part of the problem. There's only so far and so much the schools can do if you're not willing to make the child work hard and study. At some point even the best school can't save them if they sleep through class and don't do their homework.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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08-04-2014, 10:39 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2014 10:54 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
.......

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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08-04-2014, 10:51 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2014 10:56 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(08-04-2014 05:34 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 11:15 PM)sporehux Wrote:  The part of my post you felt necessary to cut was "please explain" , and if your unable to detect sarcasm then perhaps you should spend more time on the internet to become better informed about it.

Uhhh, spore, how about you read it again. I quoted "Carlos the bugsmasher." I did not quote you in that reply. There is a lengthy post that explains tenure, as per your question.

Maybe you should spend more time on forums to understand how they work?

Facepalm

You claim to be a teacher ?, that's either a lie or your a terrible one.
I ask for an explanation of tenure as people here define it and you call me asinine and for not asking a question ? , logic not your strong suit ? science help your students.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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08-04-2014, 10:53 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
........

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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08-04-2014, 08:54 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(08-04-2014 10:51 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 05:34 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  Uhhh, spore, how about you read it again. I quoted "Carlos the bugsmasher." I did not quote you in that reply. There is a lengthy post that explains tenure, as per your question.

Maybe you should spend more time on forums to understand how they work?

Facepalm

You claim to be a teacher ?, that's either a lie or your a terrible one.
I ask for an explanation of tenure as people here define it and you call me asinine and for not asking a question ? , logic not your strong suit ? science help your students.

You are daft. You were never called asinine, but I definitely am beginning to question your intelligence. Carlosthebugsmasher's response was called asinine, not yours, my dear friend. I did explain tenure in my reply to you.

By the way, it would be "you're* a terrible one."
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08-04-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(08-04-2014 10:34 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 10:08 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  Before you make any more comments, and stoke my ire anymore than you have, please take 7 minutes and watch this video. Maybe then you will have a better view of the US education system. Sure, we could spend a lot less money on education if we only educated the best and brightest like other countries, but would you feel as a parent if your kid was rejected from attending a good school because they were not intelligent enough, blind, deaf, had a learning disability, etc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9UVg-TdH0

Now, once you have watched that and are better informed, we can have a debate about what tenure means and the history behind it. Do no forget that the things you take for granted---shorter work days, decent pay, and safe working conditions--were from unions.


That movie is basically a band aid for a poor report card. It states lessons that can be learned from public education' spoor performance and still learns nothing from it, then has the tamarity to brag about crappy scores remaining more or less the same despite a 200% increase in spending per student over the past 30 years!

Given this, it's obvious that throwing more money at the problem simply is t going to fix it.

No, I'd keep spending on public education at the same levels, but I would do a bloodletting on bureaucrats, fire poor performing teachers, oh and I would allow for the use of vouchers and earmark education funds to each student so they and their parents can make the most of each tax dollar spent on them.

Got a teacher that does a great job? Pay them better! Got a lousy one? Pay them less! Money can shame and motivate a lot of people to clean up their act fast and deliver!

I'd say a few public school bureaucrat and leaders of a teachers union could benefit from the lessons of this classic speech from Glengarry Glenn Ross. Hell, ANY professional could take these lessons to heart.





I'd also set test standards and enforce them. Don't pass? You fail. Simple as that. Cheat on the test, you get a zero and fail. A little shame on some narcissistic, poor performing student could go along way and pay dividends for them later on in life. The first step to recreating a stellar public school system is to admit we suck, then make the changes.


Parents, you are also responsible for the education of your child. Are you helping them with their homework? Are you holding them accountable for lousy grades and providing incentives for good performance? No? Then you're part of the problem. There's only so far and so much the schools can do if you're not willing to make the child work hard and study. At some point even the best school can't save them if they sleep through class and don't do their homework.

You do know that the voucher system is pushed by conservatives so that parents send their kids to private schools---the majority of which are religious schools.

You make practical ideas, but it is not practical to say "fire bad teachers." If you can construct a method on which to determine what is meant from "bad," then your ideas can gain some validity. Is it going to be based on evaluations? Those are very subjective measurement tools.

Everyone loves to say "get rid of bad teachers." Ok, then find an empirical way to determine this 'badness.'
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08-04-2014, 09:16 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(08-04-2014 09:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 10:30 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  I would be willing to answer any questions you have on the subject.

What are the disadvantages of tenure systems?

Good question. Complaceny and firing are the two big ones.

To fire a tenured teacher, evidence must be gathered to be presented in a court of law to validate that the teacher was, in fact, under performing. This can be expensive, so it may be easier to keep an ineffective tenured teacher.

Complaceny is another con to the tenure system that is often cited. With less fear of losing their jobs, maybe the teacher becomes lazy. We call these teacher's "check collectors." The majority of teachers have disdain for this type of teacher. We've all had that lazy coworker that just seems to get away with being lazy.

How can we fix this system?

Eliminating tenure ends up punishing the majority of educators. Make tenure a little harder to attain. It should be a process where the teacher does research on educational strategies, continues to further their education, presents empirical data that shows effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of their teaching techniques, and presents these findings in front of a non-local entity. Maybe some teachers wouldnt want to put in this extra work, and then they would not attain tenure.

Obviously, the idea sounds simple, but I am sure there would be problems with it.
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08-04-2014, 10:08 PM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(08-04-2014 08:54 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 10:51 AM)sporehux Wrote:  You claim to be a teacher ?, that's either a lie or your a terrible one.
I ask for an explanation of tenure as people here define it and you call me asinine and for not asking a question ? , logic not your strong suit ? science help your students.

You are daft. You were never called asinine, but I definitely am beginning to question your intelligence. Carlosthebugsmasher's response was called asinine, not yours, my dear friend. I did explain tenure in my reply to you.

By the way, it would be "you're* a terrible one."
Ok maybe I misread the situation.will investigate and eat foot if required.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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