Kansas takes away teacher tenure
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09-04-2014, 06:21 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(08-04-2014 09:00 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  You do know that the voucher system is pushed by conservatives so that parents send their kids to private schools---the majority of which are religious schools.

You make practical ideas, but it is not practical to say "fire bad teachers." If you can construct a method on which to determine what is meant from "bad," then your ideas can gain some validity. Is it going to be based on evaluations? Those are very subjective measurement tools.

Everyone loves to say "get rid of bad teachers." Ok, then find an empirical way to determine this 'badness.'

Yes I am aware that vouchers are pushed by conservatives and for good reason. Because at the core, they want the best for their kids and recognize they are not getting the best value for their buck at a local public school. It is true a lot of them will send their kids off to a Christian run school, but that poor state of affairs in their own family is overshadowed by the bigger picture of the legions of parents who are forced to send their children off to a bad public school when there are plenty of good secular public or private schools which they could put their taxpayer dollars toward sending their children to. Not honoring a voucher program gives poor performing public schools a license to continue to practice substandard education with impunity.

YES FIRE BAD TEACHERS! And while you're at it, fire a few more poor performing principals, district administrators who waste money, etc. Please see the Glen Garry Glenn Ross video above. Education is not exempt from the realities of how the real world works. If you do a terrible job, you get fired! If you have a brueaucrat who consistently turns out poor performing classes, refuses to maintain order in the classroom, and most of the students are bored and not learning, yes, they need to go and get replaced by people who can do the job.

Conversely, if you have a teacher that does a stellar job teaching, removes the bad apples from distracting the class, and turns out classes which learn a great deal, perform well on tests, and have fun doing so, I'd pay the guy $150,000 a year. That will encourage those with a gift to educate to pursue the profession.

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09-04-2014, 06:58 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
Sorry OP. I support right to work and right to fire. Tenure keeps too many bad teachers on the state payroll with no consequences for their poor performance. As for the discrimination, all or none. If no gays is allowed then no Christians, no whites, no republicans, no short people, etc should be allowed. A federal judge will strike that law down though.

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09-04-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 06:58 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Sorry OP. I support right to work and right to fire. Tenure keeps too many bad teachers on the state payroll with no consequences for their poor performance.

Citation needed.

And how in the world do you quantify performance?

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09-04-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 08:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 06:58 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Sorry OP. I support right to work and right to fire. Tenure keeps too many bad teachers on the state payroll with no consequences for their poor performance.

Citation needed.

And how in the world do you quantify performance?

The past 40 years of abysmal public school performance is citation enough.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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09-04-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 08:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Citation needed.

And how in the world do you quantify performance?

The past 40 years of abysmal public school performance is citation enough.

"The past 40 years of abysmal public school performance is citation enough."


That sounds like a regurgitated talking point. So, lets look at the data.


[Image: NAEP-longterm-Black-math-ss09-13.gif]

The image shows scores from the last 40 years, and they have gone up, especially when looking at the line for black students. That doesn't equate with your talking point.

And those charter schools that are going to save education? Let's look at data from New York:

about 25% of charter school students rated proficient in English, compared with 26% of traditional public school students. In math, 35% of charter school students rated proficient, compared with 30% of traditional public school students.

Are there charter schools that do extremely well? Of course! Some of these are magnet schools that specialize in certain areas. You also have to be accepted to these schools. The regular Joe isn't going to make the cut.

Overall, the data shows that charter schools are no better than public schools. Several states have tried the voucher experiment in particular cities. They have attained very little success.
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09-04-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 08:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Citation needed.

And how in the world do you quantify performance?

The past 40 years of abysmal public school performance is citation enough.

No, it really isn't. At all.

Relative performance of individual teachers is not connected to "the past 40 years of abysmal public school performance".

Maaaaaybe the average ability would be - despite there being no reason whatsoever to suspect that Americans are, somehow, as a whole, just plain worse at teaching than, say, their OECD colleagues - but even that would have no bearing on assessing relative performance within the group.

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09-04-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 08:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Citation needed.

I love this saying. SmileSmileSmileSmile

Citations needed! Because, in a way, we are all atheists because there we weren't provided with citations of gawd
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09-04-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 06:58 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Sorry OP. I support right to work and right to fire. Tenure keeps too many bad teachers on the state payroll with no consequences for their poor performance. As for the discrimination, all or none. If no gays is allowed then no Christians, no whites, no republicans, no short people, etc should be allowed. A federal judge will strike that law down though.

LMAO. Do you really think an administrator is going to say "I'm firing you because you are gay?"

Not in the slightest. They will fire them for "poor performance" and without tenure, the teacher would have no action to take. With tenure, the teacher can say "prove my poor performance in a court of law." Tenure does not make it impossible for teachers to be fired.

So tenure doesn't keep bad teachers, it protects good teachers. Administration keeps bad teachers.
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09-04-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 08:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 06:58 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Sorry OP. I support right to work and right to fire. Tenure keeps too many bad teachers on the state payroll with no consequences for their poor performance.

Citation needed.

And how in the world do you quantify performance?


What would you suggest is the cause of our pathetic education system? If not tenure and poor perfirming teachers never getting the axe then what? Curriculum? Teaching methods? DoE bureaucrats?

If you say money I'm leaving this thread and not coming back.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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09-04-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: Kansas takes away teacher tenure
(09-04-2014 09:40 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 08:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Citation needed.

And how in the world do you quantify performance?


What would you suggest is the cause of our pathetic education system? If not tenure and poor perfirming teachers never getting the axe then what? Curriculum? Teaching methods? DoE bureaucrats?

If you say money I'm leaving this thread and not coming back.

Citation Needed

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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