Karl Barth and Election
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26-07-2012, 07:03 PM
Karl Barth and Election
So I started to read Barth's The Epistle to the Romans and studying his theology (dunno why, read an interview with John Updike before his death which piqued my curiosity is all I can think). His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation. He doesn't even bother with trivialities like Biblical accuracy. It's just a distraction. God is essentially ineffable and "Belief cannot argue with unbelief, it can only preach to it." ('Course he then proceeded to spend over 6 million words trying to express it in the 13-volume Church Dogmatics. Wink )

But his concept of election is what seems most curious to me. My read is that he seems to be saying that Jesus did much more than die for humanity's sin, he also represented God's election of all humanity (in KingsChosen's sense). I think what he is saying is that not only is KingsChosen elect, but so are the rest of us. No further action or belief required.

Am I full of shit and naive with this read?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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26-07-2012, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2012 09:53 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 07:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I started to read Barth's The Epistle to the Romans and studying his theology (dunno why, read an interview with John Updike before his death which piqued my curiosity is all I can think). His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation. He doesn't even bother with trivialities like Biblical accuracy. It's just a distraction. God is essentially ineffable and "Belief cannot argue with unbelief, it can only preach to it." ('Course he then proceeded to spend over 6 million words trying to express it in the 13-volume Church Dogmatics. Wink )

But his concept of election is what seems most curious to me. My read is that he seems to be saying that Jesus did much more than die for humanity's sin, he also represented God's election of all humanity (in KingsChosen's sense). I think what he is saying is that not only is KingsChosen elect, but so are the rest of us. No further action or belief required.

Am I full of shit and naive with this read?
Good read Girlie........Election....erection? One would hope the highest force in the Universe was way, way above the ranting of Calvin and his cohorts and at least had a heart...............Idea
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26-07-2012, 08:15 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 07:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I started to read Barth's The Epistle to the Romans and studying his theology (dunno why, read an interview with John Updike before his death which piqued my curiosity is all I can think). His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation. He doesn't even bother with trivialities like Biblical accuracy. It's just a distraction. God is essentially ineffable and "Belief cannot argue with unbelief, it can only preach to it." ('Course he then proceeded to spend over 6 million words trying to express it in the 13-volume Church Dogmatics. Wink )

But his concept of election is what seems most curious to me. My read is that he seems to be saying that Jesus did much more than die for humanity's sin, he also represented God's election of all humanity (in KingsChosen's sense). I think what he is saying is that not only is KingsChosen elect, but so are the rest of us. No further action or belief required.

Am I full of shit and naive with this read?

Only if you think it meant anything relating to reality.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-07-2012, 08:21 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 07:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I started to read Barth's The Epistle to the Romans and studying his theology (dunno why, read an interview with John Updike before his death which piqued my curiosity is all I can think). His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation. He doesn't even bother with trivialities like Biblical accuracy. It's just a distraction. God is essentially ineffable and "Belief cannot argue with unbelief, it can only preach to it." ('Course he then proceeded to spend over 6 million words trying to express it in the 13-volume Church Dogmatics. Wink )

But his concept of election is what seems most curious to me. My read is that he seems to be saying that Jesus did much more than die for humanity's sin, he also represented God's election of all humanity (in KingsChosen's sense). I think what he is saying is that not only is KingsChosen elect, but so are the rest of us. No further action or belief required.

Am I full of shit and naive with this read?

I believe Barth was considered a Universalist in terms of Salvation. ie., everyone gets the pie in the sky bye and bye.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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26-07-2012, 08:47 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 07:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I started to read Barth's The Epistle to the Romans and studying his theology (dunno why, read an interview with John Updike before his death which piqued my curiosity is all I can think). His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation. He doesn't even bother with trivialities like Biblical accuracy. It's just a distraction. God is essentially ineffable and "Belief cannot argue with unbelief, it can only preach to it." ('Course he then proceeded to spend over 6 million words trying to express it in the 13-volume Church Dogmatics. Wink )

But his concept of election is what seems most curious to me. My read is that he seems to be saying that Jesus did much more than die for humanity's sin, he also represented God's election of all humanity (in KingsChosen's sense). I think what he is saying is that not only is KingsChosen elect, but so are the rest of us. No further action or belief required.

Am I full of shit and naive with this read?

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26-07-2012, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2012 11:45 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 08:21 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I believe Barth was considered a Universalist in terms of Salvation. ie., everyone gets the pie in the sky bye and bye.

Thanks, Woofmeister and Hellbound. ... Given the choice between pie in the sky and the abyss, I'll keep my attention on the abyss, but that's just a personal call. Wink

(26-07-2012 08:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only if you think it meant anything relating to reality.Drinking Beverage

Yeah, I don't lend a lot of credence to reality, but that's just me.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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27-07-2012, 05:15 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 10:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-07-2012 08:21 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I believe Barth was considered a Universalist in terms of Salvation. ie., everyone gets the pie in the sky bye and bye.

Thanks, Woofmeister and Hellbound. ... Given the choice between pie in the sky and the abyss, I'll keep my attention on the abyss, but that's just a personal call. Wink

(26-07-2012 08:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only if you think it meant anything relating to reality.Drinking Beverage

Yeah, I don't lend a lot of credence to reality, but that's just me.
The abyss really has a lot going for it if one does a bit of reflection.....Consider
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28-07-2012, 02:36 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(26-07-2012 07:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation.

Typical theist twaddle. If he argues that God is beyond human comprehension then he should conclude that God's words are beyond comprehension, ie the Bible is beyond comprehension.
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28-07-2012, 02:56 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
(28-07-2012 02:36 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(26-07-2012 07:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  His basic premise seems to be that God is beyond human comprehension and thus beyond rational discussion or argumentation.

Typical theist twaddle. If he argues that God is beyond human comprehension then he should conclude that God's words are beyond comprehension, ie the Bible is beyond comprehension.

But this is the orthodox position. The words of God ARE beyond comprehension, which is why you must have the Holy Spirit to understand it. The old Fundie reply to the atheist who says the Bible doesn't make sense is, "That's because the Bible is God's love letter to his people. Of course you can't understand it. That's what you get for reading other people's mail!"

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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28-07-2012, 03:07 PM
RE: Karl Barth and Election
What's all this I hear about Karl Barth's erection ?
Oh.



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