Karl Marx
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24-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Karl Marx
I was studying some of his view points on religion today. Basically he says that religion is like a relaxing drug. Thinks that people created a god in our image. Also, that religion diverts people from realizing their true potential. Another point he makes is that as people get more into the materialistic lifestyle then religion will slowly go away.
When it comes to this he seems to know what he is talking about. These are atheistic views that most atheist would agree with.
What do you all think about him?
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24-08-2010, 06:34 PM
RE: Karl Marx
I haven't extensive research into his views, but I do agree with most of his religious beliefs. Can't say the same for his economic views though.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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24-08-2010, 08:11 PM
RE: Karl Marx
His analysis of capitalism is genius. He is as important an economist as Adam Smith. The idea of a centralised economy is flawed because he couldn't see beyond the family of modes of production that both capitalism and communism were nested in. So it was an attempt to make six of one thing a much better half a dozen of the other. His ideas about what he calls the superstructure, the network of control factors that keeps the populace in line, are pure genius and many of his ideas about religion fall into that analysis. That being said, I think that he throws the baby out with the bathwater a little bit with his views on religion and again doesn't quite see past the family of control memeplexes that religion is nested in.

When all is said and done, I love Karl Marx. A true genius.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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24-08-2010, 08:16 PM
 
RE: Karl Marx
(24-08-2010 04:05 PM)omega21 Wrote:  I was studying some of his view points on religion today. Basically he says that religion is like a relaxing drug. Thinks that people created a god in our image. Also, that religion diverts people from realizing their true potential. Another point he makes is that as people get more into the materialistic lifestyle then religion will slowly go away.
When it comes to this he seems to know what he is talking about. These are atheistic views that most atheist would agree with.
What do you all think about him?

Really? Yes, materialistic lifestyle negates religion. Sure. That's what I would call a bunch of wishful thinking. There are plenty of religious people with a materialistic lifestyle, regardless of whether you use the Marxist definition or the Wall Street money whore definition. The problem I have with Marx is the same as the problem I have with Orthodox capitalism: it assumes that people are motivated solely because of economic reasons. This is plainly false. People are far too complicated to simplify their behavior into either limited paradigm. Religion is more complicated than an exploitation of the masses by greedy rich corrupted scumbags. And, economic decision making is more complex than acting in one's rational economic self interest. ( a fatal error in both capitalism and socialism).

I think Marx serves as an interesting discussion. But I personally object to any paradigm that oversimplifies any social phenomoena into black and white terms which serves only to promote a specific socioeconomic model. I know economists love models. But people don't fit into neat little boxes. Religion is more than a mere distraction from realizing one's true potential.
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26-08-2010, 04:07 AM
 
RE: Karl Marx
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26-08-2010, 10:17 AM
RE: Karl Marx
dtwpuck...Yes but the thing is materialistic thinking causes for people to become less religious. Even though they claim to be christian doesen't actully make them one. I mean a vast majority of christians are liberal christians like most my friends. Liberal chrisrtians say they believe in god and jesus the savior but claim to not believe most the bible, or havent read it. No body follows the entire bible anyway and religion in secualr countries has no impact on the majorities life style.
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26-08-2010, 11:01 AM
RE: Karl Marx
Doesnt materialism mean not believing in something other than the physical world (what other than physical world?)?

By that definition, I would say that it makes a person at least less religulous, but since Im not sure about me having the correct definition, I wont be writing more.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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26-08-2010, 11:03 AM
 
RE: Karl Marx
Materialism is assigning too much importance, cherishing too much, and obsessing over material goods and objects. Just go to the mall and you'll see what I'm stalking about. I don't know how the situation is in the country where you live, but I have to prevent myself from throwing up every time I enter that temple of consumerism and witness these blind, ignorant people wandering its halls, paying too much for clothing made in sweatshops, needlessly posturing and strutting, engaging in the act of hoarding, and eating that disgusting mall food as they walk around with their over sized frames and their useless brains.

It is almost a religion of itself.
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26-08-2010, 11:33 AM
RE: Karl Marx
Oh, so what was meant was economical materialism. In that case, I cant really say anything about it, all it would be would be useless speculation about a subject I dont know anything about.
TruthAddict Wrote:I don't know how the situation is in the country where you live, but I have to prevent myself from throwing up every time I enter that temple of consumerism and witness these blind, ignorant people wandering its halls, paying too much for clothing made in sweatshops, needlessly posturing and strutting, engaging in the act of hoarding, and eating that disgusting mall food as they walk around with their over sized frames and their useless brains.
I dont know if theres that kind of consuming-culture in my country, because I rarely visit malls, or any other stores larger than a normal grocery store.
I hate when I have to go buy something. Especially when I gotta buy new clothes, the smell of new clothing, annoying radio pop-music, the huge -XX% signs, advertisements stalking me behind every corner... I prefer my fathers and my big brothers old clothes, theyre cool and they dont have any stupid texts or pictures in them.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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26-08-2010, 12:35 PM
RE: Karl Marx
(26-08-2010 11:03 AM)TruthAddict Wrote:  Materialism is assigning too much importance, cherishing too much, and obsessing over material goods and objects.

Technically, economic materialism is nothing more than saying that material goods are important. All economic cultures necessarily think this. Otherwise, their subscribers would starve to death (food is a material good too, you know). What you describe is greed, not materialism.

Quote:Just go to the mall and you'll see what I'm stalking about. I don't know how the situation is in the country where you live, but I have to prevent myself from throwing up every time I enter that temple of consumerism and witness these blind, ignorant people wandering its halls, paying too much for clothing made in sweatshops, needlessly posturing and strutting, engaging in the act of hoarding, and eating that disgusting mall food as they walk around with their over sized frames and their useless brains.

A holier-than-thou atheist? I never thought I'd see the day... Tongue

Seriously, though, if these people have the means and the desire to live their life that way, let 'em. It may be stupid, but it does you no harm.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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