Karl Marx
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26-08-2010, 03:04 PM
RE: Karl Marx
lol we atheist come in varities. I like the mall its a good place to meet girls, and hang out. I love contemporary hits including pop music. XXX sighns means i want to check it out such as gentelmans clubs. I am not a big fan of books. Just goes to show theist that we atheist are diverse too. I enjoy chatting with you all and see how others perspectives on things Smile
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26-08-2010, 05:25 PM
RE: Karl Marx
I think the colloquial version of materialism is placing an inordinate importance on products. So I wouldn't call it greed. But for sure, food is a product. And for sure, anyone who lives in the West consumes perverse amounts of products. Even our poor have it good. We really don't realise just how much crap we consume. So yeah, holier than thou indeed Smile We all suck from the teat of consumer culture.

Omega21, perhaps you can elaborate on the original point about materialism slowly eroding the power of religion?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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26-08-2010, 08:16 PM
RE: Karl Marx
Well personally speaking, materialism is the desire to want the materialistic goods the world has to offer. As more people set their desires to the materialistic world instead of building up for the afterlife then they will become less religious. For example, there are plenty of young adults, like me, that I know and they never think about religion. Instead they prefer to put their minds on the types of things that religion forbids such as sex before marriage, and lusting. Also, they build their lives around their college classes, winning, and sociol lives over religion as well. Statistically speaking, more and more people with each generation build their lives over gaining the worldy goods instead of pleasing some deity. As this happens society is becoming better, for people are looking to their education for support to guide them in the right direction instead of an ancient text. Also, as more people abandon religion the world becomes a better place as secular people tend to be better people and statistics help to prove this.
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26-08-2010, 08:20 PM
RE: Karl Marx
Quote:Also, as more people abandon religion the world becomes a better place as secular people tend to be better people and statistics help to prove this.

I'd kind of like to see the statistics to back that up.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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26-08-2010, 08:33 PM
RE: Karl Marx
Here are the stats

Where is the faith? Why do you need evidence? Big Grin The guy who made this video listed out his sources. Click the down arrow beneath the video to see his sources. I checked his sources and they seem reliable. He does a good job of putting them together in his video. Also, our good friend thethinkingatheist favorited this video and you can see it on his youtube page as well under favorites. Enjoy.
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26-08-2010, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2010 09:26 PM by BnW.)
RE: Karl Marx
I think he is taking some liberties.

There is a difference between a statistical correlation and causation. What you said, and what this video is implicitly suggesting, is that atheists are less likely to be criminals, more likely to have higher IQs, etc., because they are atheists. I have no proof on this either way but my sense is that is simply not true. I think what is more likely is that there people who are less likely to be criminals and people who have higher IQs are likely to become atheists because they are predisposed to rational thoughts (like not selling crack or stealing cars) and probably are on the smart side.

If there is a causal relationship here, I'd bet it's the opposite of what is being implied in that video.
Thought about this some more and there is something else about that video and how those stats are being presented that bothers me.

Theists will often try to claim that they are some how morally superior to atheists or anyone who does not follow their religion. My interpretation of what that video is doing is trying to say that atheists are some how morally superior to theists and is using these statistics, out of context most likely, to "prove" that point. I disagree with his approach and his conclusions.

I don't think there is any exclusivity to the moral high ground. There are plenty of people from all walks of life and beliefs that look out for their fellow man or who will steal, murder or con their fellow man. Atheists may not be as well represented in prisons as theists but that can also be a pure numbers game.

I think the maker of that video is taking the wrong approach here, or at least the wrong approach for me. I don't claim to be "better" than anyone else because I don't believe in God or for any other reason. I also resent when someone claims to be "better" than me because they do believe in .. whatever .. and refuse to be a hypocrite and that that position myself - especially if I don't believe it.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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26-08-2010, 09:55 PM
 
RE: Karl Marx
(26-08-2010 10:17 AM)omega21 Wrote:  Liberal chrisrtians say they believe in god and jesus the savior but claim to not believe most the bible, or havent read it.

This is not my experience.
Besides, I kind of agree with Sam Harris inasmuch as liberal religion offers tacit support to radical religion. I'm afraid that I also don't agree that materialistic thinking diminishes religious practice. I mean, just go to Dallas sometime and check out the big hair and gaudy jewelry. Tongue
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27-08-2010, 04:24 AM
 
RE: Karl Marx
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27-08-2010, 10:35 AM
RE: Karl Marx
BnW I see where you are coming from. It is just that using these stats theist cannot say that that atheist implies bad person. To be fair there are good and bad people on both sides. What we can both agree on by reading your post is that smarter people tend not to commit crimes such as drug dealing, and that athiest being more rational on average tend to fit the description of the smart person, but theist can be just as smart too. All in all, you make some very good points and I do agree with the fact both atheist and theist can be well educated and thus not commit petty crimes. On the other hand, you have to admit that the more secular countries are the more industrialized ones.
dtwpuck can you give me some reasons as to why you disagree with the fact that materialistic thinking does not hurt religion?
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27-08-2010, 10:42 AM
RE: Karl Marx
Quote:On the other hand, you have to admit that the more secular countries are the more industrialized ones.

Sure, but so what? Again, there is a difference between causation and correlation.

I guess my only point is that I don't favor "I know you are but what am I" types of arguments. Theists argue that atheists are immoral. Atheists respond with "Ah ha! Look at these stats! The truth is that we are more moral than you are!". It's an innane rebuttal to a ridiculous argument and only goes to definitively prove that, where religion is concerned, no one owns the monopoly on pettiness and childishness.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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