Ken Ham is dodgy?
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09-03-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
Ok, I'm watching that video. I'm seeing strawman after strawman after strawman and I haven't even gotten halfway through. I'm getting both irritated with him and humiliated with myself.
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09-03-2014, 10:27 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
(09-03-2014 10:14 PM)Charis Wrote:  Ok, I'm watching that video. I'm seeing strawman after strawman after strawman and I haven't even gotten halfway through. I'm getting both irritated with him and humiliated with myself.

There is no shame in realizing you were wrong, the shame lies in not having the courage to be better. You're doing great here, stick around.

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09-03-2014, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 10:36 PM by Charis.)
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
It's just that I thought he was one who spoke against strawman arguments in science all the time... and yet he apparently buys strawmen wholesale.








(edited for grammar)
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09-03-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
Also, Ray Comfort is the one most guilty of video editing things out of context. I'm not aware of Ken Ham practicing this type of deceit, but when people learned of the debate they wanted to be sure he wouldn't do that, given the deception and misdirection he employs with his website, lectures and "museum."

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09-03-2014, 10:34 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
(09-03-2014 10:30 PM)Charis Wrote:  It's just that I thought he was one who spoke against strawman arguments in science all the time... and yet he's apparently buys strawmen wholesale.

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09-03-2014, 10:39 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
(09-03-2014 10:30 PM)Charis Wrote:  It's just that I thought he was one who spoke against strawman arguments in science all the time... and yet he's apparently buys strawmen wholesale.

Look, I'm sure Ken Hamm is a pretty nice guy who's a pretty decent family man and all that jazz.

The problem is that all of this shit has been discussed, sifted through, revealed and ultimately decided upon by men and women who have the decency and integrity to admit what is true and the fortitude to find out (talking about motherfucking scientists here), regardless of what religion may tell us we have to believe.

Ken is oldschool, and he's bound by his commitment to religion to use whatever tactic he can to spread what he believes is the truth. This is nothing new, it's common throughout history. Look up the Hovinds for another glaring example of dishonesty.

The fact is that these guys have already lost the argument so they have been reduced to underhanded tactics to be able to even have a semblance of an argument at all.

Religion is just convincing enough these days to keep those who might look further from doing so. That's not right. Every person deserves the right to educate themselves and decide for themselves what is true.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-03-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
I guess I got hung up partially because of my past (we always supported the Hams, etc) and partially because sketchy/dishonest video editing would be so blatant that it would be stupid to do it. Though somehow I could see Ray Comfort doing it. And that makes me sad.
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09-03-2014, 11:09 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
I agree with your assessment of video editing deception, but I also have to point out telling you to your face that the earth is 6K years old and trying to break up science into historic and observational science is worse because he's doing it right to your face.

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09-03-2014, 11:15 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 11:22 PM by Charis.)
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
I don't think he's lying but that he really believes that. I guess I don't consider something to be a lie if (IF) it does not come with an intent to deceive. If there is something that is even grossly inaccurate, it could be the result of lack of knowledge (not likely in his case), delusion, denial or other factors. I guess I was looking for something showing him attempting to actually mislead.

That said.... what the heck is up with all his strawmen? He knows full well what a strawman is, since he's picked them apart everywhere else. It's like he stole everyone else's strawmen to use himself in this video. It's like this is a movie called The Strawman Snatchers or something.

I personally can't excuse him for that one since he's so schooled in strawmen. He definitely gets character demerits for that one.
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09-03-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: Ken Ham is dodgy?
I think you'll find some people on here who will tell you he knows EXACTLY what the truth is and is ignoring it for his own financial gain. He was a science teacher in Queensland. He doesn't believe what he's shoveling.

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