Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
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01-01-2014, 11:13 PM
Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
http://www.answersingenesis.org/outreach...ham-debate

I hope they post it in full on YouTube.


Be excellent to each other and party on, Dudes!
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01-01-2014, 11:25 PM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
Get 'im Bill! Fucking love that guy.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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01-01-2014, 11:26 PM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
Hmmmm.

Giving credibility to an organisation that's struggling to get attendance figures up?
Giving the appearance of equality between science and religion?

Not sure that's wise.

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01-01-2014, 11:29 PM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(01-01-2014 11:26 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Hmmmm.

Giving credibility to an organisation that's struggling to get attendance figures up?
Giving the appearance of equality between science and religion?

Not sure that's wise.

Meh, fuck that. Hamm's a twerp and Nye's the Guy. Should be good fun. If anything it'll give some of the museum's regular attendees some real science to think about.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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01-01-2014, 11:39 PM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
Organise the Kentuckian troops.

We need a lotta noise for everything that My Nye says and silence for every Ham-fisted argument.

Also, loads of unofficial phone recordings to make sure the Museum's edited version doesn't get noticed on YouTube.

Advance!

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01-01-2014, 11:45 PM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(01-01-2014 11:39 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Organise the Kentuckian troops.

We need a lotta noise for everything that My Nye says and silence for every Ham-fisted argument.

Also, loads of unofficial phone recordings to make sure the Museum's edited version doesn't get noticed on YouTube.

Advance!
That's exactly why I posted


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02-01-2014, 12:55 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(01-01-2014 11:26 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Hmmmm.

Giving credibility to an organisation that's struggling to get attendance figures up?
Giving the appearance of equality between science and religion?

Not sure that's wise.

I agree. Richard Dawkins made a very good point about why he doesn't get involved in debates with nutjob creationists like Ray Comfort, Ken Ham, etc., which is that you are giving them status by doing so. You're basically acknowledging that they have a valid argument that is worth debating, and they really don't. The best analogy that Dawkins made was that it was like a reproductive scientist going on stage to debate an advocate of the stork theory. In all honesty, I think that Bill Nye is actually doing himself a disservice by making it look like a fool such as Ken Ham is actually worth debating.

The only good that might come of it is that it may get a few fence sitters to come over to the atheist side by seeing the ridiculous arguments that people like Ham try to use, but all in all it will do very little to open up the minds of the kind of people that follow Ken Ham. In their eyes it will only solidify their belief even more that creationism and religious dogma deserve to be respected as being equal to science, and that the Bible and a science text book belong together on the same shelf.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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02-01-2014, 01:16 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(02-01-2014 12:55 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The only good that might come of it is that it may get a few fence sitters to come over to the atheist side by seeing the ridiculous arguments that people like Ham try to use, but all in all it will do very little to open up the minds of the kind of people that follow Ken Ham. In their eyes it will only solidify their belief even more that creationism and religious dogma deserve to be respected as being equal to science, and that the Bible and a science text book belong together on the same shelf.

While I do agree with you, I think that the audience that you are talking about would never even consider looking at any contrary evidence anyway if not for this kind of debate. These are lost "souls" regardless when it comes to any sort of true scientific knowledge. I think that the chance to present them with some real shit just might provide some of them the curiosity to seek out some answers for themselves. If no debate happens, they continue on in their ignorance. If the debate happens, there's a chance that a few of them might choose to engage in some actual thought about what's real and what isn't.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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02-01-2014, 01:40 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(02-01-2014 01:16 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 12:55 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The only good that might come of it is that it may get a few fence sitters to come over to the atheist side by seeing the ridiculous arguments that people like Ham try to use, but all in all it will do very little to open up the minds of the kind of people that follow Ken Ham. In their eyes it will only solidify their belief even more that creationism and religious dogma deserve to be respected as being equal to science, and that the Bible and a science text book belong together on the same shelf.

While I do agree with you, I think that the audience that you are talking about would never even consider looking at any contrary evidence anyway if not for this kind of debate. These are lost "souls" regardless when it comes to any sort of true scientific knowledge. I think that the chance to present them with some real shit just might provide some of them the curiosity to seek out some answers for themselves. If no debate happens, they continue on in their ignorance. If the debate happens, there's a chance that a few of them might choose to engage in some actual thought about what's real and what isn't.

I've found books to be far more successful for people to engage in thought about the validity of creationist arguments. Debates simply move from one point to the next, and not really giving the people in the audience a chance to think and digest the points being made. Books like "Letter To a Christian Nation" seem to be far more effective because they allow the reader to take one chapter at a time addressing the points of their argument, giving the reader time to contemplate the author's points.

Debates might be good for fence sitters, but it could also have a backfiring result by giving believers the impression that scientists like Nye and crackpot creationist leaders like Ham have equal validity in the positions where they stand, and in turn solidifying the idea that their beliefs are just as credible.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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02-01-2014, 01:44 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(02-01-2014 01:40 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I've found books to be far more successful for people to engage in thought about the validity of creationist arguments. Debates simply move from one point to the next, and not really giving the people in the audience a chance to think and digest the points being made. Books like "Letter To a Christian Nation" seem to be far more effective because they allow the reader to take one chapter at a time addressing the points of their argument, giving the reader time to contemplate the author's points.

Debates might be good for fence sitters, but it could also have a backfiring result by giving believers the impression that scientists like Nye and crackpot creationist leaders like Ham have equal validity in the positions where they stand, and in turn solidifying the idea that their beliefs a

Again, I agree. Books are better. And these debates are usually aggravating as fuck because no one ever gets to really communicate their position clearly.

My point is that for these YEC creationist followers, you will never get them to read a book that doesn't agree with their indoctrinated worldview unless they get a glimpse of some real science somewhere. This debate could be that somewhere. If the debate doesn't happen, then nothing changes.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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