Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
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05-02-2014, 12:56 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
I'm just surprised that Ham didn't at least try to explain creationist beliefs other than "there's this book that explains that". There is so much hokum on the answers in genesis website, that I thought he'd at least try to pass some of what he post there off as science. Other than a short thing about "kinds" rather than species, of which he never even really said much of anything about anyway, but other than that all he used as evidence was the bible itself.

I actually expected more out of Ham! Not better, just more than falling back on the bible.

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05-02-2014, 12:57 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(05-02-2014 12:40 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Yeah, I don't think he really ever got on him for that, much. But there is so much to cover in a debate WITH A GISH-GALLOPER, you kind of have to choose where you're going to place your time and attention. Over all I can't complain. He said what needed to be said.

I just finished it. I am pleased with Bill. Love that guy!

fixed that for ya.


Yeah, I am not just into Ham's rebuttal, and I though Nye slaughtered him.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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05-02-2014, 01:51 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
I agree. Bill ate HAM for LUNCH!

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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05-02-2014, 02:23 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
Ham's statement, "What Bill Nye needs to do for me is to show me example of something, some new function that arose that was not previously possible from the genetic information that was there, and I would claim and challenge you that there is no such example that you can give":

WTAF?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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05-02-2014, 02:32 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
I *think* that Nye is answering that at ~ 2:34:10 here when he says, "There are *countless* examples of how Nature makes predictions."

Still not following what Ham was trying to claim, though...gonna give it another listen tomorrow...

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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05-02-2014, 11:48 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
Drinking Game rule #1. Drink every time Ham says PHD
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09-02-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
This debate with Ken Ham vs Bill Nye wasn't such a good idea.

I think Ken Ham gained a lot of respect and for an outsider unfamiliar with the arguments watching the debate he sounds very professional and credible.

This is especially the case when he posted video's of professional scientists opposing evolution who have expertise in the areas debated such as Andrew Fabish the microbiologist arguing E.Coli did not gain genetic information via evolution but just shuffling genes and switching on/off. Same with the inventor of MRI who is clearly scientifically accomplished and the creationist Astrophysicist video.
These tactics by Ken Ham worked and "equalized" the debate as if each person has the same facts but different interpretation based on aprori philosophical views (naturalism vs supernaturalism) of faith NOT evidence from observational science.

What is your opinion on this ? Do you think if you were "neutral outsiders" Ken Ham sounds like he gives a credible case ?
The hard core creationist fundamentalists are not going to change their mind regardless of what is said but by Ken Ham revealing credible scientists who are YEC was a good tactic giving the impression there is some sort of conspiracy to shut out young Earth creationists from academia.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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09-02-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(05-02-2014 01:51 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I agree. Bill ate HAM for LUNCH!

I disagree. If your NOT familiar with evolution and these debates Ken Ham sounded very respectable and an equal opponent. He used arguments from authority when posting a few young earth creationist scientists who do have genuine scientific careers (E.Coli microbiologist, astrophysicist who has published in secular journals and inventor of MRI) Then he made the case that there are many more professional scientists afraid to speak up against evolution due to fear & intimidation by the secular/atheist lobby. These arguments in this debate sounded convincing.
Few people have read many books on evolution in order to critique Ken Ham (eg
Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters by Prothero, Donald) - and therefore easily misled.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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09-02-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
I'm sure this was already linked, but you must see this just to show how out of touch Ham is with reality. In his mind he just convinced 5 million people evolution is false.




Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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09-02-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: Ken Ham vs Bill Nye in Feb '14
(09-02-2014 11:45 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I'm sure this was already linked, but you must see this just to show how out of touch Ham is with reality. In his mind he just convinced 5 million people evolution is false.




Yes. I love the part where he says that all tigers, pumas, cougars, panthers, house cats, and all other cats on Earth today all came from a single pair of cats that lived 5,000 years ago at the most.

I wonder if this is true of us humans. Ham's "kinds" are said to be at the family level. In our case that would be:

Family Hominidae: humans and other great apes; extinct genera and species excluded[1]
Subfamily Ponginae
Tribe Pongini
Genus Pongo
Bornean orangutan, Pongo pygmaeus
Pongo pygmaeus pygmaeus
Pongo pygmaeus morio
Pongo pygmaeus wurmbii
Sumatran orangutan, Pongo abelii
Subfamily Homininae
Tribe Gorillini
Genus Gorilla
Western gorilla, Gorilla gorilla
Western lowland gorilla, Gorilla gorilla gorilla
Cross River gorilla, Gorilla gorilla diehli
Eastern gorilla, Gorilla beringei
Mountain gorilla, Gorilla beringei beringei
Eastern lowland gorilla, Gorilla beringei graueri
Tribe Hominini
Subtribe Panina
Genus Pan
Chimpanzee (common chimpanzee), Pan troglodytes
Central chimpanzee, Pan troglodytes troglodytes
Western chimpanzee, Pan troglodytes verus
Nigeria-Cameroon chimpanzee, Pan troglodytes ellioti
Eastern chimpanzee, Pan troglodytes schweinfurthii
Bonobo (pygmy chimpanzee), Pan paniscus
Subtribe Hominina
Genus Homo
Human, Homo sapiens

And all of these descended from Noah and his family, right Ken Ham?



"If what you say is actually true, I would want to know it too. ... You can convince me, and if it is true I want you to convince me ... and I will thank you for convincing me."

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9:18
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