Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
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04-09-2015, 05:25 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  My word, what an expert we have here. So... you *do* think that she should not be subject to the law as every other person is?

You mean should she be subject to the same consequences everyone else here faces if they refuse or interfere with the obligations of their job, than yes. But I'm not worried about going to jail for this refusal.

If they couldn't fire her for doing so, because of some red tape, there were plenty of ways to work around it that would have allowed the licenses to be provided. This decision has less to do with her job. Which could have continued on without her having any actual power to prevent her employees from issuing marriage licenses.

This decision primarily to do with her religious and moral conscious, which seems so offensive to some.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-09-2015, 05:27 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
The "law" here is one that you make as you go along. They didn't even have the ability to impeach her from her position because of this. Because there were no laws, or rules at the time that would have allowed for this to happen.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-09-2015, 05:28 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The "law" here is one that you make as you go along. They didn't even have the ability to impeach her from her position because of this. Because there were no laws, or rules at the time that would have allowed for this to happen.

You are such a legal expert that you know better than a judge now? Did you miss the part where *she had a fucking trial*?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-09-2015, 05:32 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
She was well aware of her duties and what would lead to her arrest. Certain jobs come with specific responsibilities in the eyes of the law. I understood when I signed up to be a nurse that I would have moral objections to some of my patients' and families' beliefs. Let's say I refuse to take care of a patient after finding out their background, and I abandon them - I go to jail for that. If I abandon my post for *any* reason without someone to take over, I go to jail. She had an obligation to the citizens of her county and she failed them.

If she can't perform her duties, she should step down from her position. She had that option, refused a court order, and now is suffering the consequences of her actions - or really, her intentional lack of action. She had a court mandate. I don't feel sorry for her one bit.

Do I wish harm on her while she's sitting in cell? No. Am I going to lose sleep over it something happens? Not really.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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04-09-2015, 05:36 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:19 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I've embraced a religion that encourages canibalism.

Should I be allowed to practice my beliefs???

Not believable, huh???

Are you asking me if you should be able to go out and hunt and kill people to eat because of your religious belief? No, and once you attempt to hunt and kill somebody you should be in jail.

Quote:I've embraced a religion that encourages polygamy --- how DARE you infringe on my rights and not issue marriage licenses to me and my 18 wives?

Isn't that what the brown family is doing here?

http://starcasm.net/archives/327721

Why shouldn't polygamy be legal? Who am I prevent consenting adults from marrying?

Quote:I've embraced a religion that encorages marriage of pre-pubescent girls -- how DARE you infrince on my rights (ect, etc)

You can embrace that religion all you want, you just wouldn't be able to get married.

Quote:Get with it, or get run over.

Happens all the time.

Your examples are poor one's.

What if the state claims that marriage between 12 year olds and grown men is legal, as well as polygamy. And a clerk whose conscious sees these acts as immoral, refuses to issues licenses. Do you think he should be jailed? Should we be wishing he gets raped while he's in there?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-09-2015, 05:46 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:32 AM)Nurse Wrote:  She was well aware of her duties and what would lead to her arrest. Certain jobs come with specific responsibilities in the eyes of the law. I understood when I signed up to be a nurse that I would have moral objections to some of my patients' and families' beliefs. Let's say I refuse to take care of a patient after finding out their background, and I abandon them - I go to jail for that. If I abandon my post for *any* reason without someone to take over, I go to jail. She had an obligation to the citizens of her county and she failed them.

If she can't perform her duties, she should step down from her position. She had that option, refused a court order, and now is suffering the consequences of her actions - or really, her intentional lack of action. She had a court mandate. I don't feel sorry for her one bit.

Do I wish harm on her while she's sitting in cell? No. Am I going to lose sleep over it something happens? Not really.

The only crime she committed is a refusal to sign a damn piece of paper. And not endorsing others who hand a paper with her name on it out.

There nothing in here warranting her going to jail. The law is one being made up as we go alone, the fact that her refusal to sign these licenses is not fireable offense, speaks volumes for this.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-09-2015, 05:56 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 05:32 AM)Nurse Wrote:  She was well aware of her duties and what would lead to her arrest. Certain jobs come with specific responsibilities in the eyes of the law. I understood when I signed up to be a nurse that I would have moral objections to some of my patients' and families' beliefs. Let's say I refuse to take care of a patient after finding out their background, and I abandon them - I go to jail for that. If I abandon my post for *any* reason without someone to take over, I go to jail. She had an obligation to the citizens of her county and she failed them.

If she can't perform her duties, she should step down from her position. She had that option, refused a court order, and now is suffering the consequences of her actions - or really, her intentional lack of action. She had a court mandate. I don't feel sorry for her one bit.

Do I wish harm on her while she's sitting in cell? No. Am I going to lose sleep over it something happens? Not really.

The only crime she committed is a refusal to sign a damn piece of paper. And not endorsing others who hand a paper with her name on it out.

There nothing in here warranting her going to jail. The law is one being made up as we go alone, the fact that her refusal to sign these licenses is not fireable offense, speaks volumes for this.

This is not something made up as we go along. She is to perform the duties of the job she is paid to do. She isn't and has been given several chances to carry out the duties of clerk of court.

Her crime is not fulfilling her duties. You trivialize the situation by saying she has refused to sign a piece of paper. What if it were a court document for something other than marriage and she refused based on the sexual orientation of the person presenting the paper for signature and filing? Then what?

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04-09-2015, 05:56 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The only crime she committed is a refusal to sign a damn piece of paper. And not endorsing others who hand a paper with her name on it out.
And? Signing the paper is part of her job description.

Quote:There nothing in here warranting her going to jail. The law is one being made up as we go alone, the fact that her refusal to sign these licenses is not fireable offense, speaks volumes for this.
How are you qualified to make that judgement? Please inform me how you know better than the guy who judged her at her trial?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-09-2015, 05:59 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
(04-09-2015 05:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 04:57 AM)julep Wrote:  She can't be fired; she has to be impeached. She has also forbidden other clerks in her office from issuing marriage licenses, so she is not just exercising her personal conscience, she is requiring her employees to break the law also.

She forbids them from doing so because her name in on the licenses. But has she physically forbidden them? Has she physically assaulted them, or physically prevented them from getting the licenses and issuing them themselves? If so that it would be a case of assaulting her employees. Than she would be fired.

The thing being penalized is her conscious.

They could easily say that it doesn't matter if she forbids it or not, her employees would still issues the licenses regardless of her consent on the matter. And if she physically tries to prevent them from doing so, than she would be fired.

She is violating the law and attempting to coerce others to violate the law. Jail time is a perfectly reasonable consequence of such actions. (and I hope her clerks do ignore her coercion and issue the licenses anyway)

If she could legally be fired, rather than impeached, this would be the avenue of choice to pursue; however, this is evidently not possible in her state.
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04-09-2015, 06:04 AM
RE: Kentucky gay marriage license hold out jailed!
There is a separation of church and state. If she can't separate her church from her job, she shouldn't work for the state. PERIOD.

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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