Kids and gender identity
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11-11-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(10-11-2014 10:42 PM)Nintentacle Wrote:  Boys should realize they are boys, girls should realize they are girls, and no one should have sex in their adolescent ages.

This is true even when said boys or said girls are in the opposite gender's body. Think on that for awhile oh compassionate one. Ignorance and bigotry are the real threats.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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11-11-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(10-11-2014 07:47 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Thanks for sharing Jojo!

Re your sexual education musings. I don't think there's really anything wrong with teaching all kids about both sides of the sexual equation. Giving basic facts about how both the male and female genitalia work only makes sense to me, but I take an extremely liberal stance on sex ed. I think that would rule out conflict on what to tell transgender kids. What do you think?

You'd love the way we do sex ed in Ontario...

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11-11-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(10-11-2014 10:11 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 09:31 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  I don't know, I was only 14 when I had sex for the first time, and at around 12 I can tell you I was interested to know what this sex thing was all about. In fact I think at 12 I was already sneaking peeks at the adult channels.

Plus puberty is hitting kids earlier and earlier, which means the urges are starting earlier as well. I wouldn't say at 12 parents should assume their kids aren't interested. I think age appropriate conversations about sex should start as early as possible. I'd rather kids be more informed when they need the info, than playing catch up after making bad decisions.

Like I said though my stance on sex Ed is very liberal.

Ohmy

suddenly I am thrilled that my 11 year old is just at the giggly, "OMG he smiled at me" stage.

anyone got a paper bag I can breathe into for a bit?

Not sure about boys since i had only daughters but the 'talk' starts around 12 for girls since you have to explain whats happening to their bodies. When their period starts.....its time for everything to grow up a little, including thoughts on sex. This doesnt translate necessarily to becoming sexually active but it can. Just depends.

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11-11-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(11-11-2014 10:04 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 10:11 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  Ohmy

suddenly I am thrilled that my 11 year old is just at the giggly, "OMG he smiled at me" stage.

anyone got a paper bag I can breathe into for a bit?

Not sure about boys since i had only daughters but the 'talk' starts around 12 for girls since you have to explain whats happening to their bodies. When their period starts.....its time for everything to grow up a little, including thoughts on sex. This doesnt translate necessarily to becoming sexually active but it can. Just depends.

Oh, we have already had the 'talks'. Sex Ed is pretty normal discussions around here. But talking about sexual relationships and my thinking about my 11 year old having sex next summer (same as Smerc) kinda got me hyperventilating. Lol. she isn't even to the hand holding stage yet. Lol.


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11-11-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Kids and gender identity
Bows and Arrows Wrote:But talking about sexual relationships and my thinking about my 11 year old having sex next summer (same as Smerc) kinda got me hyperventilating.
Well, at least it's better than a surprise baby bump and a too-late confession of being pregnant.

That might give you three simultaneous heart attacks and a stroke.
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11-11-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(11-11-2014 09:04 AM)jojorumbles Wrote:  
dancefortwo Wrote:I'm so glad you chimed in Jojo. If you don't mind, may I ask how old you are and how did you tell your parents or did they suspect you might be transgender already? Is your family accepting of you? I'm sorry if I'm taking this thread in a slightly different direction. My transgender daughter told me when she was 18 after years of suffering and deep depressions.
Sure, no problem. I'm 32 right now and I didn't actually start transitioning until aonth after my 31st birthday. I'm still going through the process as it takes several years. I'd estimate to be about 70% of the way there, but friends would argue with me that I'm already there.

I knew I was in the wrong body since I was around six or seven and it just tore me up inside. This was back when I was still heavily religious and involved in the Mormon Church. The church frowned on that sort of thing and I was instructed to pray it away. That I had a mental illness that only prayer and belief in god would fix. And I tried, holy hell did I try but nothing worked.

Suppression caused severe depression and suicidal thoughts/attempts. My first attempt was when I was nine I think. Leaped off of the school roof I climbed up to. It was only two stories and I landed on grass, but I was out cold for quite a while. I woke up and I was still lying there at night. Nobody came and nobody cared.

I lived like that, suppressing, denial, depression, and suicidal thoughts for years after. The only thing I knew about transgender people is what I saw on jerry springer and similar shows. They were always portrayed negatively and I was adamant that's not me.

It wasn't until I met trans people in person that my mind changed. An acquaintance told me she was trans and I had no clue beforehand. Thats when I learned the stereotypes on TV were incorrect exaggerations. That's when I started looking into it seriously, started transitioning, and my quality of life improved dramatically.

As for my parents, I know they suspected something, but they didn't know for sure. They thought I might be gay and trying to hide it. I tried dating women and it was just awful. I don't mean the women were awful, they were nice and I feel bad for tricking them, but I mean I had this overwhelming sense of wrongness when I was doing what a straight male is supposed to do.

So I rarely dated, I lived alone, and I had no friends or social life. I had no ambition to becomeore than a grocery bagger. I slept all the time on my free time and did the bare minimum to continue living with a roof over my head. I didn't care about life or living anymore. Just going through the motions was enough.

I distanced myself fromy family as they were still deeply involved in the Mormon church. It wasn't until my late twenties when I discovered most of my family walked away from the church. My mom and one sister are still involved, but my dad and the rest of my siblings aren't members anymore.

I wrote them an email about finally coming to grips with being trans and starting the process. My mom actually took it very well. It turns out one of the neighbor kids near their home is also trans. Meeting and talking with her and her parents really opened myoms eyes to the seriousness of the issue. She still isn't calling me by my new name, but I feel she's trying in her own way. She still has a lot of religious baggage to sort out though.

As for Nintentacles response to boys being boys and girls being girls, I'm not mad at him. This sounds like a teaching opportunity. Not all boys are really boys and not all girls are really girls. Gender isn't binary, there's a massive spectrum of variances in between. The acronym LGBT is actually a shortened version of LGBTQQIAA+ because not everyone falls neatly into limited categories.

Thank you for your response, that was wonderful.

One thing that completely riles me up is the notion that transgender people are mentally ill and simply need to get their heads straightened out. I've read this in comment sections countless times and responded with some facts and links to science abstracts and other information but it falls on deaf ears...or eyes as the case may be. It's as bad as religious people telling someone to simply pray the gay or trans away. It just doesn't work this way.

My daughter completely suppressed her gender. She recently told me that when she was 12 and 13 she studied how the most masculine type of man walked and worked very hard to imitate their gestures and speech. But down deep it was only imitation, it wasn't really her.

During her senior year in high school I knew things weren't going well. She slept all the time and I could hardly get her out of bed to attend school. She graduated second to the bottom of her class even though she is extremely bright.

Suppressing ones gender takes on various symptoms. During the end of her senior year, in the late Spring, she told me she was hearing voices and felt very paranoid. It was during this time that she told me she was transgender and needed to see a psychologist, a real good psychologist. The psychologist we found did some testing and diagnosed her with schizophrenia.

My husband and I were devastated. It was so unfortunate that she got this diagnosis because we thought the schizophrenia was making her delusional and making her think she was transgender. I feel horrible that I didn't see past the diagnosis.

To make a long story short, she and I finally found a different psychologist who had worked extensively with transgender people and quickly realized my daughter didn't have schizophrenia, that this was a reaction to suppressing her gender for most of her life.

After she was taken off the anti-psychotic medication (dreadful stuff) she started to transition. She began hormone treatments and within a month was starting to look, act and feel much better. After a year she was even better. It's been over two years now and she's returned to college. It's been a slow process but small steps have turned into big leaps.

Something that I became aware of during this process is my profound sadness at losing a son. You could say that we never actually had a son to begin with, but my husband and I didn't know this during the first 17 years of raising him. During the transition of our son to our daughter my husband and I had to go through a deep mourning process. This is common among parents of transgender children but we needed to travel through this phase in order to get to the other side, to acceptance and a new life with a new daughter.

We are very fortunate in one aspect, none of us are religious. My husband is pretty much an agnostic, I'm an atheist and the rest of our family is non religious. Thank god for that. (pun intended)

By the way, in researching the transgender brain I've come across some very interesting science behind human gender, if you are interested. And thank you again for your insights.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-11-2014, 05:09 PM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(11-11-2014 12:00 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(11-11-2014 10:04 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Not sure about boys since i had only daughters but the 'talk' starts around 12 for girls since you have to explain whats happening to their bodies. When their period starts.....its time for everything to grow up a little, including thoughts on sex. This doesnt translate necessarily to becoming sexually active but it can. Just depends.

Oh, we have already had the 'talks'. Sex Ed is pretty normal discussions around here. But talking about sexual relationships and my thinking about my 11 year old having sex next summer (same as Smerc) kinda got me hyperventilating. Lol. she isn't even to the hand holding stage yet. Lol.

Woah woah lol back it on up Tongue your hyperventilating got you all mixed up. I started late 14... Might have even just turned 15. The age of 12 I was sneaking peeks at the adult channels. I might have been a little early, but not THAT early Laugh out load

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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11-11-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: Kids and gender identity
Thanks dancefortwo and jojorumbles for sharing your stories. I've really enjoyed getting to hear you each talk about the unique struggle each side of the family equation deals with when going through gender transition. It's not something I've personally encountered within my own family or friends, so I'm always interested in learning more.

Jojo I think you mentioned not wanting to get off topic, I see it as completely on topic. You two continue on, I'm enjoying he learning experience Thumbsup

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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11-11-2014, 05:47 PM
RE: Kids and gender identity
(11-11-2014 04:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  By the way, in researching the transgender brain I've come across some very interesting science behind human gender, if you are interested. And thank you again for your insights.

I'm always interested in staying current with this research. I was particularly interested to see that brain scans can now determine whether someone is trans without requiring an autopsy. There was always a question of whether the brains had features typical of those of the target gender because of the hormone replacement therapy or because of nature. It turns out to be nature.

So if you have anything of interest please send it my way. Thanks.
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11-11-2014, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2014 06:29 PM by jojorumbles.)
RE: Kids and gender identity
@ dancefortwo

Your daughters experience closely mirrors my own, and I suspect many other transgender people as well. The oversleeping, the depression, the suicidal tenancies, the mimicry and pretending to be a gender you don't feel, all common themes from what I've heard from others.

The oversleeping, depression, and suicidal tenancies are actually all rolled into one issue specifically. A lot of people have a hard time understanding how anyone can descend into suicidal thoughts and attempts. It's not an instant thing, it's a long process.

From personal experience, when I slept I'm female. I feel at peace, I feel like a whole and complete human being. I feel happy. But when I woke up I was physically male. I felt fragmented, disfigured, disgusting, horrified and anxious. The only time I felt ok and happy was when I was asleep, so I slept more and more each day until it devolved into sleeping every moment I could. Asleep was heaven, awake was a nightmarish hell. I wasn't engaged in this world because, frankly, my dreams were far more pleasant than reality.

I then got to thinking if I could slip into a coma I could be happy. From there the train of thought went to going to sleep permanently by death. I could be free of this nightmare because anything in the afterlife, heaven hell or otherwise, would be a vast improvement from continuing to live. After my second failed suicide attempt, I was convinced that the reason why I didn't die the second time was because I was actually in the literal hell as described in church. It wasn't fire and brimstone, but an ever eternal misery and sorrow without end. I didn't know any better at the time. I had a family, but I was completely alone and without anyone to talk to about this stuff.

I dragged on with life, not really caring about anything or anyone. I didn't care about my grades in school, I had zero ambition, I didn't date. I continued to do the bare minimum required because I thought I was forever stuck like this. I've made several attempts to make the best of it, but it was futile. I played the game, I tried to blend in, and not draw attention to myself. I observed men and how they behave, then tried to mimic that as best I could. Football, beer, and being tough are what I should be into. Don't cry, don't show emotion other than happy or angry, stay away from pink anything, walk and talk in an alpha male way. It was awful, it was unnatural to me, and it felt weird doing it. Plus you can only keep up the facade for so long before it tears you apart on the inside. You pretend to be someone you're not for so long that you have no idea who you really are.

I can definitely see mental illnesses developing from suppressing gender identity, but I wouldn't call gender dysphoria itself a mental illness. Religious folks often say it is a mental illness and the only treatment is akin to gay conversion therapy. Currently, the only known effective treatment to gender dysphoria is transitioning and, in more extreme cases, sex reassignment surgery (aka SRS).

The surgery is crazy expensive and usually not covered by health insurance. The doctor I want to see charges $25,000 plus extra for complications and such. She's really good though, the best in the world.
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