Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
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25-09-2015, 08:42 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 08:40 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:10 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Comparing this Davis person to a President? Is her position that important?

There is a vice president always ready to stand in for the president.....so there would be no loss of continuity of government. No President is going to allow himself to be arrested and placed in jail. A judge that issues such an order might find him/herself arrested and placed in jail. A reason these don't get challenged when a clerk gets jailed might be that no Governor is going to stick his/her neck out for a clerk.

When the US Marshals grabbed Davis, imagine how things might play out if the Governor sent in state troopers to free her. If the judge ordered the the Governor to be jailed it would be a different story. He'd tell those US Marshals to Fuckoff while surround by his troopers.


Now I am even more confused.

Having said that, Australia just got another unelected Prime Minister. Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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25-09-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
You gotta hand it to the right, they sure know how to pick their "heroes"...

'Murica! Where we celebrate an Italian slave trader who got lost and killed a whole bunch of native Americans and where the middle class Christian white right wing is the most persecuted "minority" in the country.

It's like, you're sick of slandering them but than they just keep doing dumb shit like Kim Davis.
If it's not Kim Davis it's Trump if it's not Trump it's an unarmed black kid being shot by white police, if it's not that it's some guy with mental disabilities shooting up a movie theater/school, if it's not that it's some stupid politician scandle or some multi-billion dollar company doing something corrupt/stupid/unethical etc.. etc.. All the while you're told that the real threat is the mooslims and arabs who want to burn your constitution (when really they just want US troops/politicians to butt out of their affairs) which by the way is the only constitutions and most important document in the entire world (when it's neither). Poor healthcare/education, increasing wealth/racial divide, broken justice system/political system/economic system, broken infrastructure, weapons of mass destruction secured by a brick holding the door closed etc.. All the while living under a blanket of "we're the greatest country in the world!!" ignorance and forcing yourself, unwantedly, upon the rest of the world like some sort of 1700/1800's England wannabe.

What were we talking about again? I think I got a little off topic for a second there.
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25-09-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 08:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:40 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  There is a vice president always ready to stand in for the president.....so there would be no loss of continuity of government. No President is going to allow himself to be arrested and placed in jail. A judge that issues such an order might find him/herself arrested and placed in jail. A reason these don't get challenged when a clerk gets jailed might be that no Governor is going to stick his/her neck out for a clerk.

When the US Marshals grabbed Davis, imagine how things might play out if the Governor sent in state troopers to free her. If the judge ordered the the Governor to be jailed it would be a different story. He'd tell those US Marshals to Fuckoff while surround by his troopers.


Now I am even more confused.

Having said that, Australia just got another unelected Prime Minister. Big Grin

That's because Heywood is, as per usual, talking out of his ass. That is not how the American legal system works. Governors have been arrested before while serving (last one iirc was Blagojevic from Illinois on corruption charges) and there was not a pissing contest between state and federal law enforcement when he was taken into custody.

As per her position it varies from state to state if it is elected or not but yes she is a bureaucrat. She is basically in charge of issuing various licenses and other official documents (Birth certificates that kind of thing) because she is an elected official it makes removing her before her term is up much more difficult (she can either resign or must be impeached).

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-09-2015, 08:52 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 08:56 PM by pablo.)
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 08:40 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:10 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Comparing this Davis person to a President? Is her position that important?

There is a vice president always ready to stand in for the president.....so there would be no loss of continuity of government. No President is going to allow himself to be arrested and placed in jail. A judge that issues such an order might find him/herself arrested and placed in jail. A reason these don't get challenged when a clerk gets jailed might be that no Governor is going to stick his/her neck out for a clerk.

When the US Marshals grabbed Davis, imagine how things might play out if the Governor sent in state troopers to free her. If the judge ordered the the Governor to be jailed it would be a different story. He'd tell those US Marshals to Fuckoff while surround by his troopers. Davis went to jail because she is an executive without an army and the judge who put her in jail had one at his disposal.

The reason Clive Bundy didn't go to jail is he had an army backing him. Clive wasn't even elected....or an official. Just some shmuck able to convince an army of civilians to protect him.

Have you never heard of the fine governors we've had here in Illinois?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-...evich-case
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25-09-2015, 08:52 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 08:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Now I am even more confused.

Having said that, Australia just got another unelected Prime Minister. Big Grin

That's because Heywood is, as per usual, talking out of his ass. That is not how the American legal system works. Governors have been arrested before while serving (last one iirc was Blagojevic from Illinois on corruption charges) and there was not a pissing contest between state and federal law enforcement when he was taken into custody.

As per her position it varies from state to state if it is elected or not but yes she is a bureaucrat. She is basically in charge of issuing various licenses and other official documents (Birth certificates that kind of thing) because she is an elected official it makes removing her before her term is up much more difficult (she can either resign or must be impeached).

Thank you very much.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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25-09-2015, 09:22 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 09:28 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 08:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Now I am even more confused.

Having said that, Australia just got another unelected Prime Minister. Big Grin

That's because Heywood is, as per usual, talking out of his ass. That is not how the American legal system works. Governors have been arrested before while serving (last one iirc was Blagojevic from Illinois on corruption charges) and there was not a pissing contest between state and federal law enforcement when he was taken into custody.

As per her position it varies from state to state if it is elected or not but yes she is a bureaucrat. She is basically in charge of issuing various licenses and other official documents (Birth certificates that kind of thing) because she is an elected official it makes removing her before her term is up much more difficult (she can either resign or must be impeached).

I forgot about Blagojevic. He was arrested on criminal charges in a pre-dawn raid. Why didn't he just turn himself in? Why did they have to grab him in the middle of the night?

Usually what happens with governors is they are investigated and forced to resign or are impeached then tried. Or they are served with indictments, forced to resign, or impeached and then tried and hauled off to jail.

How many Governors have been jailed for contempt of court? Cause that is what we are talking about. Contempt of Court...not criminal charges. How many judges have successfully ordered a Governor to be placed in jail for contempt of court?
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25-09-2015, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 09:44 PM by pablo.)
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 09:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That's because Heywood is, as per usual, talking out of his ass. That is not how the American legal system works. Governors have been arrested before while serving (last one iirc was Blagojevic from Illinois on corruption charges) and there was not a pissing contest between state and federal law enforcement when he was taken into custody.

As per her position it varies from state to state if it is elected or not but yes she is a bureaucrat. She is basically in charge of issuing various licenses and other official documents (Birth certificates that kind of thing) because she is an elected official it makes removing her before her term is up much more difficult (she can either resign or must be impeached).

I forgot about Blagojevic. He was arrested on criminal charges in a pre-dawn raid. Why didn't he just turn himself in? Why did they have to grab him in the middle of the night?

Usually what happens with governors is they are investigated and forced to resign or are impeached then tried. Or they are served with indictments, forced to resign, or impeached and then tried and hauled off to jail.

How many Governors have been jailed for contempt of court? Cause that is what we are talking about. Contempt of Court...not criminal charges. How many judges have successfully ordered a Governor to be placed in jail for contempt of court?

Actually, what you said was that a governor would "tell the U.S.Marshalls to fuck-off" if they came to arrest him, not why.
Anyway, in 2013 then Cal.gov. Jerry Brown was threatened to be held in contempt if he did not comply with a previous ruling.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/11/...s-20130412
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25-09-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 09:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 08:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That's because Heywood is, as per usual, talking out of his ass. That is not how the American legal system works. Governors have been arrested before while serving (last one iirc was Blagojevic from Illinois on corruption charges) and there was not a pissing contest between state and federal law enforcement when he was taken into custody.

As per her position it varies from state to state if it is elected or not but yes she is a bureaucrat. She is basically in charge of issuing various licenses and other official documents (Birth certificates that kind of thing) because she is an elected official it makes removing her before her term is up much more difficult (she can either resign or must be impeached).

I forgot about Blagojevic. He was arrested on criminal charges in a pre-dawn raid. Why didn't he just turn himself in? Why did they have to grab him in the middle of the night?

Usually what happens with governors is they are investigated and forced to resign or are impeached then tried. Or they are served with indictments, forced to resign, or impeached and then tried and hauled off to jail.

How many Governors have been jailed for contempt of court? Cause that is what we are talking about. Contempt of Court...not criminal charges. How many judges have successfully ordered a Governor to be placed in jail for contempt of court?

Placed in jail? None that I could find but it is possible under a few statues. Namely Ex Parte Young, 209 U.S. 123 (1908)
Quote:While a Federal court cannot interfere in a criminal case already pending in a state court, and while, as a general rule, a court of equity cannot enjoin criminal proceedings, those rules do not apply when such proceedings are brought to enforce an alleged unconstitutional state statute, after the unconstitutionality thereof has become the subject of inquiry in a suit pending in a Federal court which has first obtained jurisdiction thereover; and, under such circumstances, the Federal court has the right in both civil and criminal cases to hold and maintain such jurisdiction to the exclusion of all other courts.

and to a lesser degree Edelman v. Jordan, 415 U.S. 651 (1974)
Quote:"The right of the Federal Judiciary to summon a State as defendant and to adjudicate its rights and liabilities had been the subject of deep apprehension and of active debate at the time of the adoption of the Constitution; but the existence of any such right had been disclaimed by many of the most eminent advocates of the new Federal Government, and it was largely owing to their successful dissipation of the fear of the existence of such Federal power that the Constitution was finally adopted."

That being said the act would have to be egregious enough to be worth the political fall-out, which would influence a Judge's opinion on how to proceed on a contempt charge. In Mrs Davis' case jailing her allowed the original court order to be fulfilled something holding a sitting governor would not necessarily do. Mrs Davis was actively keeping her subordinates from fulfilling the wishes of the court and even still she was given every chance to not be held in contempt (including one offer that may or may not have been entirely legal).

The only name that came up in my search for Governors held in contempt was Jerry Brown of California but it seems that case was settled before any actions were taken by the court.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-09-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
[Image: 150916211700-pataki-kim-davis-super-169.jpg]

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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25-09-2015, 09:56 PM
RE: Kim Davis: It's not MY fault
(25-09-2015 09:38 PM)pablo Wrote:  Actually, what you said was that a governor would "tell the U.S.Marshalls to fuck-off" if they came to arrest him, not why.

Rod Blagojevich did not have an opportunity to prevent himself from not being hauled off before a magistrate. Further, Rod wasn't jailed until he was removed from office. He was immediately released on his own recognizance after he was arrested and charged.

(25-09-2015 09:38 PM)pablo Wrote:  Anyway, in 2013 then Cal.gov. Jerry Brown was threatened to be held in contempt if he did not comply with a previous ruling.

Threatened is not the same as being held and jailed. Brown would have made a calculation. Comply with the judges order and engage in a conflict. Had Brown decided to engage in a conflict as Davis did, he probably would have taken steps not to have himself jailed. But it is Brown and you never really know with that guy.
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