King of Kings
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-12-2012, 02:12 PM
 
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 11:45 AM)Impulse Wrote:  You just described exactly the kind of god I would never worship even under threat of eternal hell (especially under such threat).

Because you're a child, you don't understand the immaturity of what you just said. This isn't like some human you are opposing or some government. This is the Creator of your being. It's not a question of what you will do or won't: you don't have any mind that He didn't give you. You think you're rebelling, but in reality you're just defective. And that's a dangerous place to be.

Quote:If that god created me, you assume it was for a purpose. Maybe it was just for the hell of it (maybe literally).

Terror in response to the idea of God, if God exists, it seems to me would be the beginning of wisdom slavery.

Terror, slavery, whatever. You're not looking at God (if God exists) in the right context. He's not just another being, He's a different order of being, and you are created from His substance.
Quote this message in a reply
27-12-2012, 02:28 PM
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 01:08 AM)Egor Wrote:  It just sounds like you know nothing and you don't care. No
I only know me and my beliefs, I cannot know no other, I can appreciate but that doesnt make me believe.

You wish to be closer to god yet when I review this thread you seem quite angry and bitter, this I dont understand. I would presume that your getting to closer to god would bring you comfort and peace... dunno maybe im wrong.... its your god only you know your reasons dude.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-12-2012, 02:30 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2012 02:53 PM by Shannon.Lane.)
RE: King of Kings
I know this is terrifically late, and I'm unlikely to say something that hasn't already been said. Me being me, though, I just.. felt compelled to reply to the idea as espoused in the original poster's sentiment.

Bear with me, m'friend - I'm going to likely cover a lot of ground, here, and I'm terribly sorry if it comes across as confrontational or a bit scattered. I have a tendency to ramble, but I'll try to keep that to a minimum.
(25-12-2012 12:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  I pity the atheists who cannot separate Christ from the Christian Church; they remain in darkness, and they remain victims of the darkness. The reason I have never been successful at being an atheist, and the reason I have never been successful as a Christian is because of what happened in 1993.

In 1993, I tried an experiment: I read the Gospel of John, and when I did, I pretended I had never heard of it before. I pretended I had never heard of Christ, or the Church, or anything. I was just a man stranded on an island and this Gospel got washed up on the shore.
I must ask: have you ever tried this with any other holy book? You're discussing the notion of Loftis's Outsider Test for Faith (OTF), but I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you should probably see if the Tao or the Koran speaks to you similarly.
Quote:In reading it that way, and I realized immediately what I was looking at: This was a fictional story about me. Various aspects of my personality were represented by the various characters, and the ultimate being I was striving to be was Jesus Christ. I was amazed. Suddenly all the secret meanings, all the riddles, all the symbols and ideas of Christ became obvious. The Gospel was a story by me, for me.

That led me down a path that has never stopped in my life since then. I marvel at who could have written the Gospels way back when—who inspired the writers to write what they wrote? Where did they get the wisdom? I came to the reasonable conclusion that there must have actually been a person like Jesus Christ. I don’t know anything about him, because the Gospels are a fictional account and a teaching tool. They are designed to create a spiritual change in any person who reads them. But there must have been a person who inspired them. We call him Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
I could say this about any of the great 'holy' books (personally, I find the Tao has more simple wisdom than the bible, once we remove the 'spiritual' element, and the writings of Bhudda are filled with lovely, practical ideas expressed in rather poetic language). What makes the Gospels somehow more worthy than they are?

Take this passage from the Tao:

Fill your bowl to the brim
and it will spill.
Keep sharpening your knife
and it will blunt.
Chase after money and security
and your heart will never unclench.
Care about people's approval
and you will be their prisoner.
Do your work, then step back.
The only path to serenity.


Or, perhaps:

Weapons are the tools of violence;
all decent men detest them.

Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.
Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.
He doesn't wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

He enters a battle gravely,
with sorrow and with great compassion,
as if he were attending a funeral.



These are incredible sentiments that speak directly to some of the core conceits that drive good, peaceful people... written by a man who lived five hundred years before Christ, made no claim to divinity, and never heard of the idea of the Abrahimic religions. Would you agree that these ideas are worthwhile?

Lao Tse found these words by using his own mind, and came to these conclusions making his own observations. He didn't require the Christian God to come up with a way to live well, and in peace with people around him.

Now.

I'm not a Taoist - I think, like any other old work that tries to explain the world and how to live in it, it has flaws, and is not without criticism. However, I do find it to be a beautiful philosophy that has a great deal of merit. According to you, this would be impossible without God, correct? Is that conclusion really reasonable?

"Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!" - Elias, from Clerks 2.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Shannon.Lane's post
27-12-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 11:03 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(27-12-2012 01:42 AM)Vosur Wrote:  It's exactly as I've said, you either do what god wants you to do or he'll throw you into hell forever. You can pretend that there's any other reason for keeping god's commandments all day long, but that's what it ultimately comes down to. Sleepy

Even if fear is the prime mover, so what? If God exists and will throw you in hell if you don't conform to what He wants, then so be it. If God exists, we are his "creatures." We are not His equal. If that fear of hell ultimately leads to a motivation to please, then so be it. It's not different than a parent and child.


Now, maybe you're so fucked up that you have neither respect for God nor your parents nor anyone who would impose anything on your behavior. Fine. Prisons are full of such failures. Juvenile detention is full of such failures. The streets are full of whino bums who feel exactly the same way. Discipline shapes us. Where discipline fails to shape us, we fail to develop.

You think 'eternal Torment' equates to 'discipline'?

You think that placing people into a 'lake of fire' without reprieve for all time, simply for getting something wrong, is equivalent to a parent scolding a child?

You think that Revelation 20:10 is equivalent to 'Juvie'?

To quote:

Revelation 20:10 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (NIV)

.... I think you may have an exaggerated understanding of prison, or a failure in understanding your own holy book.

"Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!" - Elias, from Clerks 2.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Shannon.Lane's post
27-12-2012, 02:43 PM
RE: King of Kings
Lao Tzu more likely born five hundred years before Christ and the Tao is most likely a collection of wisdom from many authors rather than a single source.

And! Petals before swine.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-12-2012, 02:45 PM
RE: King of Kings
Quote:
Quote:You
just described exactly the kind of god I would never worship even under threat of eternal hell (especially under such threat).

Because
you're a child, you don't understand the immaturity of what you just said. This isn't like some human you are opposing or some government. This is the Creator of your being. It's not a question of what you will do or won't: you don't have any mind that He didn't give you. You think you're rebelling, but in reality you're just defective. And that's a dangerous place to be.

I see. Because I don't believe as you do, that means it's "immature". Drinking Beverage Actually, the evolution of your thought process on the matter is what's truly immature. You make a lot of claims, but I'm still waiting for one solid supporting argument or one shred of evidence that any of them are true. And what you're talking about is not the creator of my being, but the figment of your imagination.

Egor Wrote:
Quote:If that god created me, you assume it was for a purpose. Maybe it was just for the hell of it (maybe literally).

Terror in response to the idea of God, if God exists, it seems to me would be the beginning of wisdom slavery.

Terror, slavery, whatever. You're not looking at God (if God exists) in the right context. He's not just another being, He's a different order of being, and you are created from His substance.
Do you ever really listen to yourself and the preposterous things you are saying? Exactly what context makes "do what I say or suffer unimaginable pain for eternity" right?

Don't bother answering that because the only correct answer is "none". It's bullying of the worst form.

What I really find troubling is your god could be the devil and, as long as he is the one with all the power and threatens to send you to hell if you don't follow him, you would be following him and you would be right here in this forum insisting it's the right thing to do. And you say atheists have no moral standard... Dodgy

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Impulse's post
27-12-2012, 02:50 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2012 02:55 PM by Shannon.Lane.)
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 02:43 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Lao Tzu more likely born five hundred years before Christ and the Tao is most likely a collection of wisdom from many authors rather than a single source.

And! Petals before swine.
This is what I get for posting in a hurry from work. *cough*

(Updated timing, as that's most definitely right - but I stick by my guns saying LT wrote the Tao. He may not have come up with all of the philosophy, but (from what my chineese-speaking friends have told me) the poetry is very consistent. I must read more on this!)

"Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!" - Elias, from Clerks 2.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-12-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 02:50 PM)Shannon.Lane Wrote:  
(27-12-2012 02:43 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Lao Tzu more likely born five hundred years before Christ and the Tao is most likely a collection of wisdom from many authors rather than a single source.

And! Petals before swine.
This is what I get for posting in a hurry from work. *cough*
Tao police. We'll let you off with a warning this time. Angel

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like houseofcantor's post
27-12-2012, 03:16 PM
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 02:50 PM)Shannon.Lane Wrote:  
(27-12-2012 02:43 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Lao Tzu more likely born five hundred years before Christ and the Tao is most likely a collection of wisdom from many authors rather than a single source.

And! Petals before swine.
This is what I get for posting in a hurry from work. *cough*

(Updated timing, as that's most definitely right - but I stick by my guns saying LT wrote the Tao. He may not have come up with all of the philosophy, but (from what my chineese-speaking friends have told me) the poetry is very consistent. I must read more on this!)
The tao that is written is not the true tao, LT wrote not the tao but his reflections on it. And while they are a joy to read and consider they are no more needed than a manual for breathing.

Legal Disclaimer: I am right, I reserve the right to be wrong without notice, opinions may change, your statutory rights are not affected, opinions expressed are not my own and are an approximation for the sake of communication.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-12-2012, 07:34 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2012 05:03 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: King of Kings
(27-12-2012 11:17 AM)Egor Wrote:  Oh here we go. Mr. Jealous again. Mr your-existence-reminds-me-I'm-a-loser again. Mr. I'm-going-to-orbit-you-like-a-planet-orbits-a-sun again.

(27-12-2012 03:57 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I have no delusions. I know the truth." "I am a black belt in taekwondo."

narcissism |ˈnärsəˌsizəm|
noun
excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one's physical appearance.
• Psychology extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type.

"God isn't looking for cowardly dogs for His kennel. He wants vicious
would-be killer dogs: pit bulls with an attitude, Dobermans and
Rottweilers with anger issues, shepherd dogs that would rip a coyote to
pieces, and rat terriers that will dispatch vermin without conscience.
That's what he wants, and he wants them to obey his commands."

You moron, please don't try to pontificate outside of your profession. I'm not narcissistic if what I'm telling you is true. Narcissists have low self-esteem. I have a "correct" self-esteem. Of course to losers with low self-esteem, a correct self-esteem probably seems narcissistic. So, in a word, my narcissism is your problem--not mine.

Quote:Borderline Personality Disorder
By JOHN M. GROHOL, PSY.D.

The main feature of borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a pervasive pattern of instability in interpersonal relationships, self-image and emotions. People with borderline personality disorder are also usually very impulsive.

This disorder occurs in most by early adulthood. The unstable pattern of interacting with others has persisted for years and is usually closely related to the person’s self-image and early social interactions. The pattern is present in a variety of settings (e.g., not just at work or home) and often is accompanied by a similar lability (fluctuating back and forth, sometimes in a quick manner) in a person’s emotions and feelings. Relationships and the person’s emotion may often be characterized as being shallow.

A person with this disorder will also often exhibit impulsive behaviors and have a majority of the following symptoms:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
Chronic feelings of emptiness
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms

Again. You got it wrong. BPD is mostly for young females. I have absolutely no BPD features in my personality. Also, you may want to consider what constitutes a disorder vs. a trait. We all have personality traits, but what makes them a disorder?

You actually fit the definition of a narcissist more than I do. Your website (last I looked) seemed to show a great need to present you as someone who is important, has all the answers, is a doctor, is attractive to women (but the girl looks like a Philipino bride and is much younger than you--but I won't go there.) And yet, you're kind of mousey with thick glasses, etc. And that is the kind of person who usually needs narcissism as a psychological defense. I'm not saying you have a disorder; I have no idea what your 3D life is like. I'm just saying you have that creepy mentally ill look about you.

But, I'm the real deal. And you know what that means? It means narcissists really really hate me. They always have. I can smell them from a mile away, and I have had to be very careful in my life to avoid their would-be attacks (either at work or in school, or online). Hell hath no fury like a narcissist scorned. No
I'll post this not for our friend Egor (he needs some intense person to person help, and not from me,) but for anyone who's interested in psychology. Consider

"my narcissism is your problem--not mine."
"Oh here we go. Mr. Jealous again. Mr
your-existence-reminds-me-I'm-a-loser again. Mr.
I'm-going-to-orbit-you-like-a-planet-orbits-a-sun again."
"You actually fit the definition of a narcissist more than I do."
"But, I'm the real deal."
"I can smell them from a mile away"

The following is from an article about narcissism.

"Narcissists tend to have high self-esteem. However, narcissism is not the same thing as self-esteem; people who have high self-esteem are often humble, whereas narcissists rarely are. It was once thought that narcissists have high self-esteem on the surface, but deep down they are insecure. However, the latest evidence indicates that narcissists are actually secure or grandiose at both levels. Onlookers may infer that insecurity is there because narcissists tend to be defensive when their self-esteem is threatened (e.g., being ridiculed); narcissists can be aggressive. The sometimes dangerous lifestyle may more generally reflect sensation-seeking or impulsivity (e.g., risky sex, bold financial decisions)."

A narcissist is highly unlikely to take advice from anyone, or learn anything new, from a set up such as an internet forum. It's possible, but basically if you want to "get through" to Egor you're "pushing shit up hill" If he comes to a new understanding of something he'll only think he's worked it out for himself, because that's how his brain is wired.

He's here primarily to make himself feel important, and will distort reality to make that happen. No matter how many times he's told he's wrong or needs to look at things from a different angle, he just won't get it.

So my suggestion is this. Use conversations with Egor to make points you wish to tell others, but don't imagine he is going to appreciate your point or suddenly "see the light." That's very unlikely to happen, because it isn't why he's here.

PS Check out Egor's #4 in "best place to debate theists" for more of the same. He writes "They (atheists) are simpletons, just like the religious." So the only person who isn't a simpleton is...you guessed it...Egor.

Having received absolutely no attention for starting his own religion, he's now having a go at starting his own forum. The guy's a legend in his own lunchbox.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Mark Fulton's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: