King of the Jews
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23-12-2013, 03:44 AM
RE: King of the Jews
(23-12-2013 03:41 AM)Diogenes of Mayberry Wrote:  Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
- Zech 9:9

Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
- Matthew 21:5

And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
- Zech 11:12

And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
- Matthew 26:15; 27:3, 9

Coincidence? Me thinks not.

Not coincidence - post hoc fact fitting. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-12-2013, 04:34 AM
RE: King of the Jews
(21-12-2013 11:51 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  ...
The Romans viewed the Judean religious beliefs as batshit crazy. Ironically, they coined the term "atheist" to describe these weirdos who would piss off all the other gods by denying their existence.
...

I'm pretty sure that that was the Greeks.

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23-12-2013, 04:36 AM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2013 05:28 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: King of the Jews
(23-12-2013 03:41 AM)Diogenes of Mayberry Wrote:  Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
- Zech 9:9

Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
- Matthew 21:5

And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
- Zech 11:12

And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
- Matthew 26:15; 27:3, 9

Coincidence? Me thinks not.



For starters, the passage in Matthew 21:5 comes from a miss-translation of Zechariah, most likely from the Septuagint. The passage in Zechariah is referring to one donkey, it is written so awkwardly as a part of a traditional Hebrew poetic style. The passage in Matthew most likely stems from whoever wrote it not being able to understand or read the original Hebrew, and thus the passage in Matthew refers strangely to Jesus riding two separate donkeys.

New American Standard
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your king is coming to you;
He is just and endowed with salvation,
Humble, and mounted on a donkey,
Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.


New King James Version
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.


Orthodox Jewish Bible
Rejoice greatly, O Bat Tziyon; shout, O Bat Yerushalayim; hinei, thy Melech cometh unto thee, tzaddik, and having Salvation; ani (lowly, meek), and riding upon a chamor, even upon a colt the foal of a donkey.

New International Version
Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion!
Shout, Daughter Jerusalem!
See, your king comes to you,
righteous and victorious,
lowly and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.



Also, how hard would it be to fulfill a 'prophesy' already written a book you're intimately familiar with? Get me a fucking donkey and let me show you...


As for the second passage?

Matthew 27:9-10 NASB
Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel; and they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”


Guess what? Jeremiah =/= Zechariah! Weeping


"In another example, Matthew said that the purchase of the potter's field with the thirty pieces of silver that Judas cast back to the chief priests and elders fulfilled a prophecy made by Jeremiah: "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was priced, whom certain of the children of Israel did price; and they gave them for the potter's field as the Lord appointed me" (27:9-10). The only problem is that Jeremiah never wrote anything remotely similar to this, so how could this be a fulfillment of "that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet"? Some scholars have suggested that Matthew was quoting "loosely" a statement that was actually written by Zechariah (11:12-13) rather than Jeremiah. If this is true, then one can only wonder why a divinely inspired writer, being guided by the omniscient Holy Spirit, would have said Jeremiah instead of Zechariah. To offer this as a solution to the problem posed by the passage doesn't do much to instill confidence in the inerrancy doctrine. Furthermore, if Matthew was indeed referring to Zechariah 11:12-13, then he certainly was "quoting loosely," so loosely, in fact, that any semblance of a connection between the two passages is barely recognizable: "Then I said to them, `If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.' So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver. And Yahweh said to me, `Throw it to the potter'--that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of Yahweh for the potter" (NKJV). Many versions (RSV, NRSV, JB, NAB, REB, GNB, NWT, Moffatt, and Lamsa's translation from the Peshitta text) translate this passage to read treasury for potter, and the Septuagint (the Holy Spirit's favorite version) reads furnace for potter. All of these variations indicate that the meaning of the original certainly wasn't clear enough to claim this as a prophecy of the purchase of the potter's field with the money that Judas was paid to betray Jesus. If it was, then fundamentalists owe us an answer to the question posed earlier: Why did a divinely inspired writer attribute to Jeremiah a prophecy that was made by Zechariah? Of course, when bibliolaters talk about "wonderful prophecy fulfillments," they don't have much to say about this one. The reason why they don't should be obvious."

-Farrell Till

http://infidels.org/library/modern/farre...phecy.html



TL;DR Version

The first 'prophesy' stems from a miss-translation of the Hebrew, turning a poetic reference into a second donkey. Assuming it even happened, riding two donkeys into town is not much of a prophecy when you consider that Jesus would have known about the passages in question (and being able to read Hebrew himself, would have ridden just one anyways). The second is a miss-attribution, and even if applied to Zechariah (and not the non-existent Jeremiah passage that it claims), the passage still makes no sense as the Zechariah passage is very vague with no messianic trappings.

Or you can watch this video.




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23-12-2013, 06:19 AM
RE: King of the Jews
Yep, that is correct, Evo. And reiterates what I said above, it was just copied, and as you point out, by someone who misinterpreted it. The author of the gospel of Matthew was writing in Greek, in Syria; not in Aramaic in Judea.

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