KingsChosen Journey (another question)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-01-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(27-01-2012 10:03 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Conversion from Atheist to Christian is not very believable. Most likely the need to believe in a higher power never left the individual. Separation from religious belief and then to return would mean that you never truly left the belief. Being an atheist is a final conclusion because the implications are so profound.

In other words, I'm calling BS.

Sounds like when Christians say to an ex-Christian "You were never a true believer!" How arrogant for you to claim to know what he believed or didn't!

In other words, I'm calling hypocrisy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Ben's post
28-01-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 01:10 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  
(27-01-2012 10:03 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Conversion from Atheist to Christian is not very believable. Most likely the need to believe in a higher power never left the individual. Separation from religious belief and then to return would mean that you never truly left the belief. Being an atheist is a final conclusion because the implications are so profound.

In other words, I'm calling BS.

I couldn't agree more!!!

I could disagree more, but I do disagree vastly with his comment.

I don't accept that concept of how it's depicting what an atheist must think.

There is people who are rightfully atheist for not believing a God exists that still have that desire or urge to see a higher power in the world. Many want it to be true deep down but go on living not believing in one. That's what you find in a lot of the people who call themselves agnostics even though they are atheist.

Atheist isn't a final conclusion... Atheist is the absence of accepting any of the God conclusion. I think he was an honest non-believer.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2012, 01:18 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 01:10 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  
(27-01-2012 10:03 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Conversion from Atheist to Christian is not very believable. Most likely the need to believe in a higher power never left the individual. Separation from religious belief and then to return would mean that you never truly left the belief. Being an atheist is a final conclusion because the implications are so profound.

In other words, I'm calling BS.

I couldn't agree more!!!

Naaah. I'm a pretty severe atheist (6.9+ on the Dawkins scale), but there have been moments when the idea of belief has seemed alluring. I can imagine that feeling coinciding with eternal circumstances or events that strongly reinforce and amplify it. I see KC's conversion being in this realm. The human mind is a complicated thing - we don't understand how the pieces fit well enough to explain the irrational thoughts people get and hold on to.

Those moments passed for me because reason prevailed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2012, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2012 01:33 PM by Thomas.)
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 12:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And Romans 9 is a huge elephant in the room for Arminians.

Bible references are not useful to any thought process.
Theology is like philosophy, but without the questions.

If you like Dutch theologians read Kierkegaard. He has some very interesting existential ideas on faith or "leap of faith". Then read Nagel on his position on the absurdity of life. Follow up with Sartre.

The progression of thought leads us to see that life is absurd and religion is the attempt to apply meaning to the meaningless. This explains why some are religious.
Tell me what Sartre means when he says, "We are before we are" and why does Nietzsche say, "God is dead"?

If you're looking for spirituality read "The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality", Andre Comte-Sponville. The human mind deserves more than the bible for inspiration and growth. We have to discover truth for ourselves.

With respect to atheism, this is a logical conclusion based on extensive philosophical thought. Do not take the position of atheist lightly. It is a profound claim of truth, not a sarcastic shot at the religious. You do not "flip" in and out by reading one book or the other. This is why I call BS on the religious-atheist-religious path. It is simply NOT possible unless you you are such a shallow thinker that I shouldn't waste my time responding. As that is where I am with KingsChosen. Hopefully others will learn from the exchange.

Come to your own truth and be serious about it.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(27-01-2012 05:20 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Interesting. I have to say I applaud you for your communication skills. You generally seem calm and polite when you post.

Thank you. It can be trying at times.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 02:29 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-01-2012 05:20 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Interesting. I have to say I applaud you for your communication skills. You generally seem calm and polite when you post.

Thank you. It can be trying at times.

And not just for you.Dodgy

N.B. I may be imperfect, but I'm not depraved.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 02:29 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-01-2012 05:20 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Interesting. I have to say I applaud you for your communication skills. You generally seem calm and polite when you post.

Thank you. It can be trying at times.

And not just for you.Dodgy

N.B. I may be imperfect, but I'm not depraved.

No... you're not. Not in your ideology. I also think there is a semantic issue.

Any type of imperfection = depraved to God (since He is perfect).

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2012, 02:43 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 02:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 02:29 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-01-2012 05:20 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Interesting. I have to say I applaud you for your communication skills. You generally seem calm and polite when you post.

Thank you. It can be trying at times.

And not just for you.Dodgy

N.B. I may be imperfect, but I'm not depraved.

No... you're not. Not in your ideology. I also think there is a semantic issue.

Any type of imperfection = depraved to God (since He is perfect).

But to people, depraved means morally corrupt, bankrupt, without redeeming traits.
And people are the audience of the Bible.
So a book that tells me I am depraved is not really one that I'm going to put a lot of stock in.Angry

But it doesn't matter since I'm not of the elect.Angel

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Chas's post
28-01-2012, 03:28 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
Thomas, your opinion is fair. It's along the same lines as what I believe. If someone claimed to be a Christian then denounced it, I believe that they were never one. In my belief, God is all powerful and cannot be renounced by one of His own.

I also have great respect for my religion, and I take it seriously... much like you do for atheism.

I don't understand why you think people with differing ideologies can't have intelligent discussions.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
28-01-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: KingsChosen Journey (another question)
(28-01-2012 03:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I also have great respect for my religion, and I take it seriously... much like you do for atheism.

I don't understand why you think people with differing ideologies can't have intelligent discussions.

If I may jump in here.
KC, the basic fact that there ARE so many differing ideologies with regard to a god or gods is the heart of why some have a hard time with discussion.
When one ideology is pure fantasy, and the other based of fact/evidence, all intelligent discussion is lost. No matter how complicated it is or happy sounding it is, if it is fantasy purported as truth it will fail the "intelligent" test and talks will break down.

Now if your god would somehow get everyone to think about him the same way, well then hey, bring on Alex Trebek!

"I'll take ""Ancient God Myths"" for $200 Alex".
"The answer is....."This god likes foreskins as tribute..."".
Ding Ding Ding!!!

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TalladegaTom's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: