Kirk Cameron finds banana, loses God
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01-04-2014, 09:41 PM
RE: Kirk Cameron finds banana, loses God
(01-04-2014 08:20 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
Happy april fools day

Consider

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01-04-2014, 09:59 PM
RE: Kirk Cameron finds banana, loses God
(01-04-2014 08:58 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Yeah I remember Ray Comfort... I could never remember the other fella's name.

The crocoduck made me piss myself laughing... When he brought it up in a debate with two biologists. I don't know why the scientists stayed... I'd have walked out.

They can't really be serious...right?

And that is why people like Richard Dawkins refuse to get on a stage with creationists and have a debate. As Dawkins said, for him to get on stage for a debate against creationists like Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron is like a reproductive scientist getting on a stage to have a debate with an advocate of the stork theory. It gives them status, and gives an impression to people that creationists have a valid argument if they can get scientists to come on stage to debate them - that these two arguments are equally valid. This is exactly why I feel that Bill Nye shouldn't have done the debate with Ken Ham. Knowledgeable people like Nye should not be wasting their time debating YECs because by doing so he's making it look like Ham's argument has validity. Ham should be treated the same way we would treat people who claim the existence of fairies and unicorns, because his argument has the same validity as those do.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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01-04-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: Kirk Cameron finds banana, loses God
Maybe we'll be lucky and he will trip on a peel.



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01-04-2014, 10:24 PM
RE: Kirk Cameron finds banana, loses God
(01-04-2014 09:59 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 08:58 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Yeah I remember Ray Comfort... I could never remember the other fella's name.

The crocoduck made me piss myself laughing... When he brought it up in a debate with two biologists. I don't know why the scientists stayed... I'd have walked out.

They can't really be serious...right?

And that is why people like Richard Dawkins refuse to get on a stage with creationists and have a debate. As Dawkins said, for him to get on stage for a debate against creationists like Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron is like a reproductive scientist getting on a stage to have a debate with an advocate of the stork theory. It gives them status, and gives an impression to people that creationists have a valid argument if they can get scientists to come on stage to debate them - that these two arguments are equally valid. This is exactly why I feel that Bill Nye shouldn't have done the debate with Ken Ham. Knowledgeable people like Nye should not be wasting their time debating YECs because by doing so he's making it look like Ham's argument has validity. Ham should be treated the same way we would treat people who claim the existence of fairies and unicorns, because his argument has the same validity as those do.

True...

But then again, surely people are rational enough to see these arguments for the crap they are?

A biologist in a debate with a creationist can win without saying much at all... Just let the creationist make a fool of themselves, and then calmly explain evolution and how we know its a fact.

To really debate, properly, both sides must fully understand their opponent's position...

With Kirk Cameron... either his knowledge of the theory of evolution is so pathetic (in which case he isn't qualified for the debate), or its simply a strawman.

I'd go with the latter.

Its like a game of poker really...

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02-04-2014, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2014 01:27 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Kirk Cameron finds banana, loses God
(01-04-2014 10:24 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  But then again, surely people are rational enough to see these arguments for the crap they are?

A biologist in a debate with a creationist can win without saying much at all... Just let the creationist make a fool of themselves, and then calmly explain evolution and how we know its a fact.

To really debate, properly, both sides must fully understand their opponent's position...

With Kirk Cameron... either his knowledge of the theory of evolution is so pathetic (in which case he isn't qualified for the debate), or its simply a strawman.

I'd go with the latter.

Its like a game of poker really...

Unfortunately, many people can't see these arguments for the crap that they are. When it comes to creationists, you have to keep in mind how it seems looking through their eyes. They take comfort in listening to a guy like Ken Ham spout a bunch of bullshit that has no scientific evidence, because as long as it sounds good that's all that matters. Ham plays the role of a "knowledgeable" professor very well to any religious person. Obviously, when atheists hear him talk, they say "Really? Is this seriously this guy's argument against scientific evidence?! What a nutjob!"

By getting on a stage with guys like Ken Ham, people like Bill Nye are merely reinforcing Ham's credibility in the eyes of his followers. It's giving them the impression that "yes, science and creationism are equally plausible, and therefore should be debated". No matter how much truth comes out of Nye's mouth, or how much bullshit comes out of Ham's mouth, Ham's followers have already been convinced that Ham's arguments are of equal validity. For the creationists who want creationism taught alongside science in schools, the fact that a scientist like Nye is willing to get on a stage with a YEC like Ham for a debate is merely reinforcing the idea that they are right and science and creationism have equally valid points.

Anybody who actually wants to learn about evolution or other scientific theories can easily find tons of books, or even videos on You Tube, that explain it. We need to stop giving creationists credibility by putting their ridiculous arguments on the same platform as science.

We have to remember, these people are going on faith, which they freely admit. So, if they already believe what they do in spite of the lack of evidence, why should scientists be putting in any effort to debate their figureheads? To the creationist, it looks like this: "So, they're showing scientific evidence...big deal. They still can't prove my god doesn't exist. Besides, look at Ken Ham. He's showing how faith and science can work together."

It's not like a game of poker, it's like this:

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“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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