Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
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03-08-2016, 05:15 AM
Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
NZ:

Wikipedia Wrote:New Zealand is a developed country with a market economy. New Zealand is a World Bank high-income economy and ranks highly in international comparisons of national performance, such as health, education, economic freedom and quality of life. Nationally, legislative authority is vested in an elected, unicameral Parliament, while executive political power is exercised by the Cabinet, led by the Prime Minister...
New Zealand is a member of the United Nations, Commonwealth of Nations, ANZUS, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Pacific Islands Forum, and Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation.

SG:

Wikipedia Wrote:For the past decade, it has been the only Asian country with the top AAA sovereign rating from all major credit rating agencies...
Singapore ranks high on its national social policies, leading Asia and 11th globally, on the Human Development Index (UN), notably on key measures of education, healthcare, life expectancy, quality of life, personal safety, housing. Although income inequality is high, 90% of citizens own their homes, and the country has one of the highest per capita incomes, with low taxes. ...
Singaporeans are mostly bilingual in a mother-tongue language and English as their common language. Its cultural diversity is reflected in its extensive ethnic "hawker" cuisine and major festivals—Chinese, Malay, Indian, Western—which are all national holidays.
The nation's core principles are meritocracy, multiculturalism and secularism. It is noted for its effective, pragmatic and incorrupt governance and civil service, which together with its rapid development policies, is widely cited as the "Singapore model". Gallup polls shows 84% of its residents expressed confidence in the national government, and 85% in its judicial systems—one of the highest ratings recorded. Singapore has significant influence on global affairs relative to its size, leading some analysts to classify it as a middle power. It is ranked as Asia's most influential city and 4th in the world by Forbes.
Singapore is a unitary, multiparty, parliamentary republic, with a Westminster system of unicameral parliamentary government. The People's Action Party has won every election since self-government in 1959. One of the five founding members of the ASEAN, Singapore is also the host of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Secretariat, and a member of the East Asia Summit, Non-Aligned Movement, and the Commonwealth of Nations.

Chile:

Wikipedia Wrote:Chile is today one of South America's most stable and prosperous nations. It leads Latin American nations in rankings of human development, competitiveness, income per capita, globalization, state of peace, economic freedom, and low perception of corruption. It also ranks high regionally in sustainability of the state, and democratic development. Chile is a founding member of the United Nations, the Union of South American Nations and the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States.

Brunei:

Wikipedia Wrote:Brunei has the second-highest Human Development Index among the Southeast Asia nations, after Singapore, and is classified as a "developed country". According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), Brunei is ranked fifth in the world by gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity. The IMF estimated, in 2011, that Brunei was one of two countries ... with a public debt at 0% of the national GDP. Forbes also ranks Brunei as the fifth-richest nation out of 182, based on its petroleum and natural gas fields.

Would you be concerned if they formed a Foreign Trade Agreement between themselves?

Well, they did and it has the snappy title of:
The Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement (TPSEP).

Would you be concerned if they also invited these countries to join in negotiations of a wider agreement?:
Australia,
Canada,
Japan,
Malaysia,
Mexico,
Peru,
the United States,
Vietnam.

Would you be concerned if their stated mission was to:
"promote economic growth; support the creation and retention of jobs; enhance innovation, productivity and competitiveness; raise living standards; reduce poverty in the signatories' countries; and promote transparency, good governance, and enhanced labor and environmental protections."?


Personally, I think the more fair trade there is the less likelihood of war.

The more wealth and job security, the less need for religion.

Having lived in South East Asia for over eight years, I've heard many a tale of western investors losing everything after being encouraged to do business in places like Malaysia. They thought they had legal agreements with local authorities only for a law to change or a corrupt official to pull the rug from under them... there's nothing they can do. They lose money, their staff lose their jobs and the dreams of raising children in a new country evaporate.

For these reasons, companies small and large tend to play safe by expanding to Singapore and Hong Kong only, which rightly have good anti-corruption reputations.

Having said that, there is a mechanism, called the Investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) which is an instrument of public international law, by which countries and investors can sort out their differences but this is not without its critics, including the Australians and...
Wikipedia Wrote:South Africa has stated it will withdraw from treaties with ISDS clauses, and India is also considering such a position. Indonesia plans to let treaties with ISDS clauses lapse when they need renewal. Brazil has refused any treaty with ISDS clauses.

Wikipedia Wrote:A more probable way ahead may be the preservation of investor protection under public international law, including ISDS, but with more concern for transparency and the balancing of economic and non-economic interests. [...] the European Commission proposed September 2015) an 'Investment Court System' to replace ISDS clauses ... with the scope for investor challenge much reduced and with 'highly skilled judges' rather than arbitrators used to determine cases.

So if you are the kind of person who worries about the appointments to the SCOTUS, I think you need to pay attention to who these 'highly skilled judges' / arbitrators are and will be in the future.


Many years ago, I saw a documentary by James Burke who talked about an Italian city square (I forget which city). The ruling elite (the monarchy) was on one side; one side was for the clergy; the third was for the military and the fourth was for the merchant class.

From Westphalia to the United Nations, the states have reached a sustainable level of stability; the church has lost the race but the caliphate is still a threat; the military are largely under control of the states ... now is the era of the merchant class.

With the internet, technological advances are changing the World Order.
States will become investors rather than regulators.
The Leviathan needs to evolve!
New international entities need to form as the new regulators.
Consumers need to organise to counter-balance the merchant class.


tl;dr version:

1. TPP is coming (IMHO, probably this year)
2. TTIP is coming but may be re-thought following BREXIT.
3. Look out for developments relating to rethinking the ISDS (there's a job for Bernie Sanders to get his teeth into)

Don't be scared of the TPP. Trade agreements are necessary for peace. Unsure

Be scared of the lawyers. Ohmy

Find out where your representatives stand on the ISDS and what they are doing to ensure good governance (fairness, accountability and transparency).

GO! Big Grin

If you have knowledge of or are involved with activist / consumer groups who are on to this already, please post them below.

Thanks.

Thumbsup

This is worth watching:

Obama is choosing his words extremely carefully.

PM Lee has been involved in the TPP from the beginning, hence the better sales pitch.

If you don't know him, he is hugely popular but less so than his father. But then, his father was the Singaporean Nelson Mandela so that's a hard act to follow.

And, as a bonus, note the accidental criticism of Trump (or was it Hillary) at 26:13. For the question, start from 22:44




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03-08-2016, 05:20 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
That`s way too much info. I can only say that Muffs is the only kiwi I know , judging by him alone , NZ should be nuked. Tongue

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03-08-2016, 05:36 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
Why not? Let them create an agreement between themselves.
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03-08-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
An Incan, Maori, and a Denisovan walk into a trade agreement... I don't know what happens next.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-08-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
I met one Kiwi in my life (RL that is) -- a guy living in California, doing whatever work he could find.... He was on an expired tourist visa....

We kept him on working at the bar for a couple months..

Good guy, with some wild stories.....

We trusted him anyway.....

.......................................

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03-08-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
Trust is a strong word. People, like nearly every living thing that has ever existed, seem to be wired for deception regardless of what country they're from.

'Murican Canadian
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03-08-2016, 08:33 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
Brunei? GDP = $9 billion.
NZ? GDP = $169 billion.

These are both inconsequential players in the overall makeup of international trade. Who cares what they agree to?

US GDP = $18 trillion, and China GDP = $12 trillion as comparisons.

Australia's major trading partner is China, with $81 billion worth of exports and $57 billion worth of imports in our favour.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-08-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(03-08-2016 06:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I met one Kiwi in my life (RL that is) -- a guy living in California, doing whatever work he could find.... He was on an expired tourist visa....

We kept him on working at the bar for a couple months..

Good guy, with some wild stories.....

We trusted him anyway.....

Did any of his stories involve sheep and gumboots? Big Grin

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03-08-2016, 07:25 PM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(03-08-2016 08:33 AM)SYZ Wrote:  ...
Australia's major trading partner is China, with $81 billion worth of exports and $57 billion worth of imports in our favour.

OK. So, how will the TPP change that, if at all?

Unsure

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03-08-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
At work.

Fek yes I'd trust a Kiwi. Worked along side enough of 'em.

As to the actual meat of the post?

FEK 'Free Trade'! ( Will edit in the 'Anger' emote later)

There's no real such thing. Bigger economies will always (Via their internal lobby groups) work to screw over their smaller partners.

(Will edit in the 'Anger' emote later)
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