Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
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04-08-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(04-08-2016 09:38 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 04:19 AM)Stevil Wrote:  NZ is the largest Dairy exporter in the world. [...]

~Reuters: 28 Mar, 2016:

China once helped drive global dairy demand but its stockpiling of powdered milk sent prices plunging and has left farmers in the world's top milk exporter, New Zealand, struggling to stay afloat and its agriculture-dependent economy facing risks... New Zealand's dairy sector was until recently the backbone of the economy, representing around 25% of exports, but in the past two years farmers have had NZ$7 billion wiped off their collective revenue...

Today, around 85% of farms run at a loss, leaving them fighting to stave off bankruptcy and forced farm sales...

The Reserve Bank of New Zealand warned this month that stress tests showed banks would report losses ranging between 3% and 8% of their dairy exposure, depending on the severity of the price plunge... Weak dairy prices will have a "significant negative impact on the wider economy" said BNZ Head of Research Stephen Toplis.

—So... no, don't trust the Kiwi's economy. Sadcryface
NZ economy is doing way better than the Australian economy right now. Way better than the US economy right now. Our farming has its ups and downs, one moment our farmers are all wealthy multi-millionaires and the next they are all struggling and risking bankruptcy. Sectors always have ups and downs.
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04-08-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(04-08-2016 10:28 AM)Lucipurr Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 04:19 AM)Stevil Wrote:  NZ is the largest Dairy exporter in the world.
USA have put many trade blockers in our way because they see us as an economic threat to them.

The US sees everything as a threat to them. I mean, they tried to interfere in our Brexit referendum because it wasn't in their interests.
They banned our Pavlovas at one stage.
They also put heavy restrictions on our kiwifruit, claimed we had dumped merely because we had diverted a ship (headed to Japan) off to USA instead and sold in USA at US prices rather than Japan prices. It was a weak argument, but US put up the pretence of "free world" and "free trade" but they are anything but that.
NZ is far more free trade than US.
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04-08-2016, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2016 03:07 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(04-08-2016 11:13 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 04:19 AM)Stevil Wrote:  ...
NZ is the largest Dairy exporter in the world.
USA have put many trade blockers in our way because they see us as an economic threat to them.

Obama mentioned (in the above speech at 36:20) 18,000 tariffs imposed on them from other countries that would be "knock[ed] out".

Of course, it was a US press conference in the US for the consumption of the US audience so he wasn't going to mention the tariffs that would be knocked out to the benefit of NZ.

Do you have any details on that from the NZ perspective? Details of the TPP are hard to find.
I don't really understand TPP, haven't been following it in detail.
We had a huge protest a while back, many people didn't want the govt signing it.
I think there are fears that large multinational corporate companies can steam roll our government, as they would gain the ability to sue. With the money they have, the law system often comes down to a money fight because it is expensive and can go on for years. It's often not about who is in the legal right.

I would be very worried if our health system ends up privatised like the US. This would be terrible. I would also hate it if gun manufacturers sue our govt and get the gun restrictions removed. John Key has stated that we won't end up with privatised health but you never know. TPP will be around for decades, John Key won't be Prime Minister for decades, plus you can never trust the "word" of a politician.

I'm all for free trade though, NZ is a world leader in this already, but we lack the economic leverage.

Here is an interesting comparison between how NZ treats Aussies and how Australia treat Kiwis.
[Image: 7-07-2016_12-52-38_pm.jpg?itok=om5-8v12&...1470049560]
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04-08-2016, 03:53 PM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
As Stevil said there was a lot of protests here about this.
It was mostly the loud minority though. People ignorant of how shit works.

The TPP has A LOT to it. It's not simple just a free trade agreement between nations. It's basically bringing all these countries under one common law and that's the issue for a lot of people because those laws are a lot like US laws and ones that allowed corporations to have so much control in the states.

The biggest concerns is that large multinational corporations will be able to sue our government. So think like tobacco companies suing because there's laws that require cigarettes be hidden from view. The tobacco companies can sue claiming it hurts their profits and a NZ court will rule if the law is unfair or not. This goes for everything. Tobacco, guns (as Stevil said), medicine (which is the biggest concern) etc...

But IMO people don't have enough faith in our justice system. Our judges are very good, much better than politicians, at upholding 'New Zealand values'.

The other issue is intellectual property rights. It will extend it out to 75? or 50? or something years. People aren't too happy about that either because that'll benefit large corporations more than anyone else.

I think people are just fear mongering and don't really know what they're protesting about.
There's a serious issue in this country of this loud left wing (our left wing, not your left wing. More like blue collar v white collar, not liberal v conservative) who are petrified of progress (such as not voting to change the flag). It pisses me off some times. Just stupid poor people protesting shit they dont understand.

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05-08-2016, 02:43 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
Thanks for the input on this guys.

I notice the contributions are mainly from Commonwealth males.

I don't think we have any forum members from Vietnam, Peru or Mexico but it would be good get a Canadian perspective.

Shall we open up the conversation to the Murikans?

I can do that by changing the thread title to "The TPP: Crooked Hillary Will Take Your Guns!"

Big Grin

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05-08-2016, 04:58 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
I don't think Muricans know or care about it.
Once it's all finalized I'm sure Obama (or Trump or Hillary) will make a speech claiming 100% of the credit.
"We, America, the greatest and bestest country in the world!! God bless us!! have blessed these tiny shitty insignificant countries with our gracious democracy and brought freedom to their lands!! GOD BLESS MURCIA!!"
Flags will fly, guns will be shot, bibles will be held up and under age rape victims will be forced to carry their rapists baby to term.

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05-08-2016, 05:20 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(04-08-2016 03:53 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The biggest concerns is that large multinational corporations will be able to sue our government. So think like tobacco companies suing because there's laws that require cigarettes be hidden from view. The tobacco companies can sue claiming it hurts their profits and a NZ court will rule if the law is unfair or not. This goes for everything. Tobacco, guns (as Stevil said), medicine (which is the biggest concern) etc...

But IMO people don't have enough faith in our justice system. Our judges are very good, much better than politicians, at upholding 'New Zealand values'.

Well, that is a big concern because it doesn`t really matter how good your judges are , they would not be able to go against the law. If the law says that big corp can hold your government responsible for the loss of profit there is nothing your judges can do about it without blatantly violating the law .

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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05-08-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(05-08-2016 05:20 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 03:53 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The biggest concerns is that large multinational corporations will be able to sue our government. So think like tobacco companies suing because there's laws that require cigarettes be hidden from view. The tobacco companies can sue claiming it hurts their profits and a NZ court will rule if the law is unfair or not. This goes for everything. Tobacco, guns (as Stevil said), medicine (which is the biggest concern) etc...

But IMO people don't have enough faith in our justice system. Our judges are very good, much better than politicians, at upholding 'New Zealand values'.

Well, that is a big concern because it doesn`t really matter how good your judges are , they would not be able to go against the law. If the law says that big corp can hold your government responsible for the loss of profit there is nothing your judges can do about it without blatantly violating the law .

Only if the law is deemed unfair. Example, tobacco. Tobacco companies could argue hiding cigarettes from view reduces their profits, but the NZ government can argue that it's in the best interest of the public. In this case public health.

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05-08-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
I thought that it wasn't the national courts that decide, but an arbitration panel?

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05-08-2016, 07:27 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2016 07:30 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Kiwis, Singaporeans, Chileans and Bruneians ... Do You Trust Them?
(05-08-2016 07:03 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  I thought that it wasn't the national courts that decide, but an arbitration panel?
...

Correct. See the links to the ISDS in the OP.

The link shows that corporations have won some and lost some.


Additionally, this is a relatively unbiased overview (by TYT standards) of the TPP and ISDS (meaning that the analysis is fair and the conclusion is what you'd expect from TYT):



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