Kopimism
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07-01-2012, 03:32 PM
RE: Kopimism
Copyright violation has inherent good parts, if it's not entirely good.

First of all, it avoids crazy monopolies and huge prices for any kind of knowledge, worth its price or not..
Second, it avoids paying lots of money for false advertisement and sub-standard products. Those self-appointed "stars" deserve to burn out before they make the big bucks
Third: it provides access to information and self-education for people who can't afford the products anyway so they are in no kind of target group, but by being unable to grow intellectually, they will never be targeted in the future either.
Fourth: Channels are created for an author to sell his/her own products and/or ask for donations based only on quality and popularity, bypassing the corporate routes which take no risks and reject the best materials because "they won't sell anyway".

Fifth: the corporate bastards receive disproportionate earnings compared to the effort involved in creation. When a movie is launched, it receives immediate payback and a nifty profit from theater tickets. Then it is launched on DVD/Blue Ray, then it is sold to television networks (Pay-per-view, then cable, then regular) then it goes to paid Internet stream sites, collector's sets, trilogies, theme sets etc. This is only from viewing. Then: toys, clothes, McDonald's happy meals, school bags and practically everything that can be printed with themes and characters from the movie. Theme park attractions and, when they want to squeeze whatever is left from that movie, they auction "artifacts" that have been used while filming the movie. I'm not even going to get close to reputation benefits and many-many sequels, each of them with their own "halflife" as described above.

Where's the damage? And who the fuck cares any more? That product has been bought and sold over and over again already. Society has paid for it and it deserves to receive ownership in the form of freely-available art and knowledge for everybody. Musicians (the ones who are the most frequently downloaded illegally) are more famous and make thousands of times more money from concerts, due to the free publicity included in the act of piracy. A record can never replace the feeling of a concert. And musicians should sing and play and do a show. Not do it once in an afternoon and be rich ever-after. They wouldn't have the technology to sing once and play forever if the society they grew in didn't have *some* kind of public knowledge to use as basis for such products. I have to work every day for my money and my work needs to be creative too. Come and sing and I will pay, even if I heard your songs before. I will pay even more because I already know I like you. And, anyway, society ends up paying their product in full too so, again, it deserves ownership.

Photographers, same drill. Nobody would even know them unless you have an educated audience and/or a high-paying client. In both cases, free publicity of genuine quality and free public education does more good than bad. True talents grow faster in a free market. The corporations will pay a lot for a man who became successful on his own because there is no risk involved.

Information products shouldn't be copyrighted. Not for long, anyway. We know that unless we pay you, you will stop creating. But don't force me to watch you only when I can afford it or you will experience some mighty empty stadiums. And, since I cannot afford your records, I will never know that you're much better today than you used to be 3 years ago when I hated your shit. When you sing, let me hear you from the outside and some day I may wish to come inside and shake your hand after I payed for my ticket. You don't need to sing louder. Let me put a glass against the wall and listen to that and you won't even know I'm here. Why are people not allowed to light a candle from your torch? Your flame will not grow smaller when we do. But by not letting us, you condemn us to darkness, you, copyright-threatened artist, you.

Sorry Chas, as a starving brain in my youth, I feel very strongly about this one. And, when I became able to afford it, I did use the little money I had to buy the album, even if I had already downloaded it illegally and knew every song by heart. I did it because I knew deep inside that the artist had earned my money a while ago. I felt the need to pay it as a debt. In our age of technology, there is no excuse for poverty-induced ignorance. Fuck copyright laws. They don't advantage the artists either. Just a bunch of lawyers and corporations. And fuck them too. Information should be nobody's slave. Without common information we'd still be hunting animals with a stick.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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07-01-2012, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2012 04:49 PM by Chas.)
RE: Kopimism
Copyright violation is theft, both legally and morally.

A work of art is not 'information' that everyone has a right to have for free.

I am a software developer and a photographer. If I choose to make something publicly available, that is my choice.
But you have no right to the things I have created. None.

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07-01-2012, 04:51 PM
RE: Kopimism
New art is built on the foundations of old art. Do you think it would be unfair, after you sold your art and made your profit, for humanity to own your artistic idea and build on it? You still keep the honors, they are yours forever, but your work has been paid, don't you think?

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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07-01-2012, 04:56 PM
RE: Kopimism
(07-01-2012 04:51 PM)Malleus Wrote:  New art is built on the foundations of old art. Do you think it would be unfair, after you sold your art and made your profit, for humanity to own your artistic idea and build on it? You still keep the honors, they are yours forever, but your work has been paid, don't you think?

No, I don't think. I have spent the last 18 months developing a software product. Are you saying I get to sell one copy?

I busted my ass to get to 7000 ft on Blacktail Butte in Jackson Hole. I made some nice photos of the Tetons. I get to sell one print?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2012, 04:59 PM
RE: Kopimism
Absolutely not. You are allowed to sell them until humanity pays for your ENTIRE effort, including the education you needed to be able to create what you created. As many copies as it takes. And when your work has been fully paid, you should let it go forever. Just like any other product.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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07-01-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: Kopimism
(07-01-2012 04:59 PM)Malleus Wrote:  Absolutely not. You are allowed to sell them until humanity pays for your ENTIRE effort, including the education you needed to be able to create what you created. As many copies as it takes. And when your work has been fully paid, you should let it go forever. Just like any other product.

I guess I sort of agree with that.Confused Copyright used to be 17 years, which seemed reasonable.

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07-01-2012, 05:25 PM
RE: Kopimism
It needlessly slows down humanity by 17 years for each bit of progress. Movies, for example, only make scraps after 3-5 years, but are still kept prisoner by their owners for those scraps that shouldn't even belong to those people any more.

I will add more to this. If humanity never fully pays for your effort, you can feel free and treat it as personal data or make it a gift for humanity, entirely your choice. But there is no excuse for books that sold millions of copies and now they barely sell dozens to still not be free in a digital format. That's what I call keeping information in prison/slavery AFTER you have been paid your price.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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07-01-2012, 07:25 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2012 07:27 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Kopimism
(07-01-2012 11:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-01-2012 08:55 AM)Malleus Wrote:  It doesn't even matter. If it works out and becomes global the ones who attempt to control the Internet are pretty much fucked. If it doesn't work out it has the potential to knock down quite a few religious privileges. How can this not be a brilliant idea?

The not-brilliant part is copyright violation. Why do people think that an an author's work is free for the taking? Also applies to composers, photographers, etc.

As an artist who gives all his art away? As a naive philosopher who publishes solely to web forums? Notices how the article mentions a trending away from individual pirates; how the "official policy" is to shade the truth? In terms of black and white, pirate is the moral position; period.

Intellectual property is art. Mofos trying to legislate as if it is product. Makes this artist wanna kill. What the non-artist types fail to realize is that people insist on paying me for stuff. That's the moral position - the balance, the tao.

This copyright shit is bullshit. Fucking usury taking another spin.
(07-01-2012 04:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-01-2012 04:51 PM)Malleus Wrote:  New art is built on the foundations of old art. Do you think it would be unfair, after you sold your art and made your profit, for humanity to own your artistic idea and build on it? You still keep the honors, they are yours forever, but your work has been paid, don't you think?

No, I don't think. I have spent the last 18 months developing a software product. Are you saying I get to sell one copy?

I busted my ass to get to 7000 ft on Blacktail Butte in Jackson Hole. I made some nice photos of the Tetons. I get to sell one print?

There you go. Commercial artist. a.k.a. sell-out. Tongue

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07-01-2012, 07:39 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2012 07:43 PM by Chas.)
RE: Kopimism
(07-01-2012 07:25 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(07-01-2012 04:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, I don't think. I have spent the last 18 months developing a software product. Are you saying I get to sell one copy?

I busted my ass to get to 7000 ft on Blacktail Butte in Jackson Hole. I made some nice photos of the Tetons. I get to sell one print?

There you go. Commercial artist. a.k.a. sell-out. Tongue

Don't give me that 'sell-out' bullshit.

You guys sound like the evangelists of the free open-source software world.
I think free open-source software is great, I use lots, I've made some.
But there's no reason to insist that software or any other creation is somehow the property of the people. It's the property of the people who made it.

(07-01-2012 05:25 PM)Malleus Wrote:  It needlessly slows down humanity by 17 years for each bit of progress. Movies, for example, only make scraps after 3-5 years, but are still kept prisoner by their owners for those scraps that shouldn't even belong to those people any more.

I will add more to this. If humanity never fully pays for your effort, you can feel free and treat it as personal data or make it a gift for humanity, entirely your choice. But there is no excuse for books that sold millions of copies and now they barely sell dozens to still not be free in a digital format. That's what I call keeping information in prison/slavery AFTER you have been paid your price.

How are you going to define "fully paid"?

And after a movie is 'fully paid' do theaters get to charge for showing it?
Does anyone get paid for storing it? Delivering it?
Does a TV station get to charge advertisers for showing it?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2012, 07:46 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2012 07:48 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Kopimism
Back in the dark ages, this chick on deviantArt directed my attention to BitLord. So i went out into teh nets and helped myself to what was available. One thing I do continuously that a mofo can learn from, is question my morality continuously.

What is theft? Come in my house, jack my XBox, that's theft, make me mad. Come in my house, jack my Sylvia poster, that's blaspheme. Someone has to die. It is not nearly as crazy as it sounds; rather it illustrates the clarity between I and mine. Steal my shit till there's nothing left, I'll be dead. People don't do these calculations because they have become domesticated by civilization. Civilization is undeniably progress, this money shit still needs work. The coin of the realm is an investment of a person's life; and now there's parasitism.

And I had this mp3 player that would not allow me to put pictures of my Gwynnies on it because of DRM. Threw that shit away, became a pirate. Not because I steal shit, not because I am right; but because the other side is clearly wrong. That's my moral perspective.
(07-01-2012 07:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  Don't give me that 'sell-out' bullshit.

Fuck, dood. You know I just threw that in there to get a rise outta ya. Angel

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