Korea
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08-08-2017, 07:12 PM
RE: Korea
I fully admit it. I am scared.

Terrible weapons in the hands of angry men scares the crap out of me.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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08-08-2017, 09:55 PM
RE: Korea
(08-08-2017 07:08 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 06:38 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  "If" he does, sure. It's seem to violate the laws regulating civilian military leadership absent an immediate threat.

I wonder if Trump will try to get himself one of those "blank check" use of force permission from Congress. Don't really need a declaration of war. LBJ got one for Vietnam after Tonkin Gulf, Bush Jr got his after 9-11. Congress LOVES being taken off the hook for any real responsibility so if the shit hits the fan they can say "We gave the executive power to make that decision, it's not our fault!"

When the stakes are nuclear, the calculus changes.
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09-08-2017, 12:40 AM
RE: Korea
So what do we have here?

Trump: "These unpopularity numbers... fake news, right?"
Lackey: "No sir, they're real."
Trump: "What can we do?"
Lackey: "We've tried everything, sir."
Trump: "What have other proper presidents done before?"
Lackey: "Well..."
Trump: "Tell me!"
Lackey: "They started wars."
Trump: "Good. Let's do it!"
Lackey: "Yes sir, but there a few things we have to do first to make it a popular war."
Trump: "Go on?"
Lackey: "We need to leak an official looking security assessment to the reputable media."
Trump: "Inforwars and Breitbart?"
Lackey: "No, sir, the New York Times, MSNBC, CNN. They've never met a war they didn't like."
Trump: "But aren't they fake news?"
Lackey: "Only in your head, sir. Next we need to wait until social media are getting vocal about Murikan Exceptionalism and talking about what "we" should be doing to take advantage of the target region's instability; talking about Saddam, Gaddafi, al-Assad whoever we choose as a "madman" and not talking about the target's people who we are going to massacre."
Trump: "What do I do?"
Lackey: "You can help with some tough talk to whip the gullible up into a frenzy."

Trump Wrote:"They will be met with fire and fury the likes of which the world has never seen before."

Let's see how long it takes before the cheerleaders take the field.

(08-08-2017 02:31 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Frankly, we should be taking advantage of this situation to reshape security in Southeast Asia.
...

Dude, just because the Prime Minister here is doing deals with your buddies the Saudis, it doesn't mean you're invited to take away our right to self-determination.

Signed
SE Asia.

Who's next? Let's see who has got wind of the 'leaked' security report? Ah! Look who's come out the woodwork...?

(08-08-2017 02:42 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ...
A madman has threatened to strike the U.S. with nukes. Now it comes out that he most likely possesses the ability to do so.
...

And more exceptionalism...

(08-08-2017 02:50 PM)BryanS Wrote:  ...
An old fashioned arms race in Southeast Asia would disproportionately benefit the US in this situation and would be another form of pressure on China (and to some extent Russia) to reign in N Korea.

Or... To avoid mass devastation and blood-shed, they could realise what the NK leadership actually wants: to maintain their dynasty / stay in power.

Easiest thing is to call in the CIA to advise Kim Jong-un because no one has greater experience in propping up dictatorships.


(22-07-2017 10:14 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Tillerson appointed Sec of State:
Oil & Gas 1
Gunrunners 0

Money to Saudi Arabia:
Oil & Gas 1
Gunrunners 1

Peace negotiations with Russia over Syria:
Oil & Gas 2
Gunrunners 1

Sanctions remain:
Oil & Gas 2
Gunrunners 2

O&G... it's your move.

East Asia fear tactics:
Oil & Gas 2
Gunrunners 3

C'mon Tillerson. Up your game!

Dodgy

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09-08-2017, 01:02 AM
RE: Korea
I am with Abaris.

NK Dictators have treatened SK and the world in general countless times over the past 50 years. What have they done so far. A.so.fuckin.lutely.nothing.

The only people they are kiling are their own, Stalin style. The only territory they are occupying is NK. The only people suffering are NK people.

The army is to hold their own people hostage, the long range artillery and now ICBMs is to told the rest of the worl hostage. Doesnt mean they are going to use that shit, but surely they wont start a war. They havent in the past 50 years, why should they now?

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09-08-2017, 01:36 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 01:02 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  They havent in the past 50 years, why should they now?

It's not that they have to, it's that Trump wants there to be a credible threat. It's much less of a stretch than Bush's Iraq invasion to find WMD that were never there. He's actually got a rogue state with anti-US rhetoric that has nuclear weapons. In terms of justification Trump is probably on firmer ground than Bush. All Trump has to do is rattle sabres enough, get the NK guys to launch a few more missile tests, and claim that their missiles can reach anywhere in the US - milk the fear for all it's worth.

He'll get his war, if he really goes for it. Military may try to reign him in, but won't succeed. Ultimately he is the supreme commander and can condemn any opposition as treason. Unless your military is prepared to launch a coup, which will weaken the USA immeasurably, I think a war with North Korea, once set in motion, will be impossible to avoid. It has to be nipped in the bud now. A different diplomatic approach has to be adopted. Realistically, Trump has to be removed from office, because if he is intent on war then he will sabotage any anti-war efforts while he remains.

Add to that that South Korea will probably bear the brunt of any North Korean response, it's a war made in heaven for a propagandist.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-08-2017, 01:56 AM
RE: Korea
Sure, if the US administration wants a war its gonna have one. Bush had nothing and made the entire WMD thing up, and most experts knew it. Who is gonna hold the US administration accountable on an international level? And with what (threat)? Trump and his administration are lying if you ask them when the next bus is due. They have created their own propaganda channels now on TV. If they think they want to go NK, they will, no matter what. Of course Un gave Trump more to work with than nothing, he is giving him a lot, its part of Uns own plan to be credible.

If you are looking at things from this angle however then the problem is entirely the US and not NK. The NK regimes are stable and consistent in their continuous empty threats to foreign nations.

The Trump administration based on general US interventionism of the past decades however.....

The only silver lining i currently see is how Tillerson seems to try and deescalate. Yet we all know what happens to servants who arent useful or obedient to their DJT master: "....We did great things together....."

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09-08-2017, 06:31 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 01:02 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I am with Abaris.

NK Dictators have treatened SK and the world in general countless times over the past 50 years. What have they done so far. A.so.fuckin.lutely.nothing.

The only people they are kiling are their own, Stalin style. The only territory they are occupying is NK. The only people suffering are NK people.

The army is to hold their own people hostage, the long range artillery and now ICBMs is to told the rest of the worl hostage. Doesnt mean they are going to use that shit, but surely they wont start a war. They havent in the past 50 years, why should they now?

Mad as Kim Jong Un is, I don't think the prick has a suicide wish. He knows that as soon as he fires a missile in the direction Guam, Japan of wherever, North Korea will be wiped off the face of the earth. Trump, another prize gobshite, wont strike first (as much as he'd like to) . Even he knows that a North Korean artillery barrage would level Seoul and piss off the Chinese. Sanctions are a waste of time so, eventually, after all the sabre rattling, both sides will have to sit down and negotiate some sort of settlement.

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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09-08-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 06:31 AM)Marozz Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 01:02 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I am with Abaris.

NK Dictators have treatened SK and the world in general countless times over the past 50 years. What have they done so far. A.so.fuckin.lutely.nothing.

The only people they are kiling are their own, Stalin style. The only territory they are occupying is NK. The only people suffering are NK people.

The army is to hold their own people hostage, the long range artillery and now ICBMs is to told the rest of the worl hostage. Doesnt mean they are going to use that shit, but surely they wont start a war. They havent in the past 50 years, why should they now?

Mad as Kim Jong Un is, I don't think the prick has a suicide wish. He knows that as soon as he fires a missile in the direction Guam, Japan of wherever, North Korea will be wiped off the face of the earth. Trump, another prize gobshite, wont strike first (as much as he'd like to) . Even he knows that a North Korean artillery barrage would level Seoul and piss off the Chinese. Sanctions are a waste of time so, eventually, after all the sabre rattling, both sides will have to sit down and negotiate some sort of settlement.

Don't write off Bannon just because he is not in the news anymore. He WANTS a war with China.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-08-2017, 07:20 AM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 07:32 AM by Stefan Mayerschoff.)
RE: Korea
(08-08-2017 02:24 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 01:29 PM)Dom Wrote:  Trump says:

"They will be met with fire and fury the likes of which the world has never seen before."

A play on words. It's meant for Kim to think Trump means we'll launch nukes first (we won't). In reality "fire" just means they are about to seriously meet the U.S. war machine. Bombed to hell.

General Mattis is going to show North Korea why his nickname is mad dog.

Yes, that's a logical interpretation based on the large sampling of Trump actually using metaphor, nuance and/or wordplay in his statements.

NOT. The guy can barely pair 2 cohesive sentences together in a row. You're givin him WAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit for his verbal aptitude.

The more likely assumption would be that he said exactly what he meant. After all, this is the guy who asked in an intelligence brief why we couldn't use the nukes we have, right?
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09-08-2017, 07:24 AM
RE: Korea
(08-08-2017 03:01 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 02:58 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They won't be able to nuke us. I guarantee you we will overwhelm them in a day. Stealth bombers at 2am. Followed by a wave of tomahawk missiles. And then reigning hell by countless strike aircraft on everything they have. They are seriously not prepared for what will hit them. Kim Jong Ding Dong is toast.

I'm not as confident as you that we have the capability to do that, but even supposing we do, doing so before they do anything to us is the equivalent of shooting someone for no better reason than that you're afraid that they might shoot you. It would make us both cowards and murderers.

This analogy is lost on someone like LDH. After all, he would do just that according to his own statements. He LIKES the stand your ground laws that remove the requirement to first try to extricate yourself from a dangerous situation.

It's truly a John Wayne cowboy movie mentality. Shoot first, don't even bother with asking any questions.
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