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09-08-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 09:25 AM)Dom Wrote:  Trump knows the wrestling scene and that means he knows "trash talk". Un trash talked at Trump, Trump trash talks back.

I'm not sure his mental faculties allow for the realization that Wrestling and trash talk are fake. I never thought I would say this, but compared to Trump Shrub was mensa material. I'd call that guy a chest punding Gorilla, if it wasn't that insulting to the Great Apes.

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09-08-2017, 10:35 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 10:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 03:22 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Also -- if you have a way to take out Kim Jong-whatever (I have trouble keeping the names straight) and only him, I might not have such a big problem with that. But it would be criminal to kill millions of innocent North Korean citizens (who are his victims, if anything) just because we're wetting our pants in fear. We used to be better than that.
No the same situations but I'm not sure about being better than this - Native Americans would disagree, same with slaves in days past, Japanese killed in atomic explosions*, Vietnamese, Iraquis... USA I would say wasn't better than this - it's no evil empire to be sure but it's past isn't exactly story of moral superiority.


*Heard it was legitimate military action. But I also heard that it was a crime done to show Stalin US new toy.

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I wasn't so much talking about moral superiority as courage. We used to be the "home of the brave" -- or at least that's what our national anthem claims. Now we're nothing but cowards and bullies. We're letting ourselves be ruled by fear, and by slimebags like Trump who capitalize on that fear. It's shameful and disgusting.
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09-08-2017, 10:45 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 10:35 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 10:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  No the same situations but I'm not sure about being better than this - Native Americans would disagree, same with slaves in days past, Japanese killed in atomic explosions*, Vietnamese, Iraquis... USA I would say wasn't better than this - it's no evil empire to be sure but it's past isn't exactly story of moral superiority.


*Heard it was legitimate military action. But I also heard that it was a crime done to show Stalin US new toy.

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I wasn't so much talking about moral superiority as courage. We used to be the "home of the brave" -- or at least that's what our national anthem claims. Now we're nothing but cowards and bullies. We're letting ourselves be ruled by fear, and by slimebags like Trump who capitalize on that fear. It's shameful and disgusting.

To me, that's the most disturbing thing about the post 09/11 USA. These sniveling masses of dorks are all too happy to hand over power and control (and their own personal rights, btw) to a central authority in the name of "safety" which is all bullshit anyway. The Patriot Act, spying and data collection on our own citizens with no probably cause, invasive airport screening processes (not to mention the racial profiling that goes along with that) - WTF are we doing?

We're doing exactly what the terrorists wanted us to - turning our backs on the principals of individual rights and freedoms that made us great. There's not a shred of doubt that the 3,000+ people that were killed on 09/11 is a great tragedy but we act like it was 30 million.

I just shake my head every time I think of our founders and the quote "Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither"

If they would have been as chickenshit as the population today we'd have never even thought about defying big bad England.
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09-08-2017, 10:45 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 10:35 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 10:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  No the same situations but I'm not sure about being better than this - Native Americans would disagree, same with slaves in days past, Japanese killed in atomic explosions*, Vietnamese, Iraquis... USA I would say wasn't better than this - it's no evil empire to be sure but it's past isn't exactly story of moral superiority.


*Heard it was legitimate military action. But I also heard that it was a crime done to show Stalin US new toy.

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I wasn't so much talking about moral superiority as courage. We used to be the "home of the brave" -- or at least that's what our national anthem claims. Now we're nothing but cowards and bullies. We're letting ourselves be ruled by fear, and by slimebags like Trump who capitalize on that fear. It's shameful and disgusting.

Internment of Japanese Americans during WWII does not look particularly courageous. Same with wars waged with technicaly inferior combatants.

History of USA is at best side subject for me but "home of the brave" looks to me as improbable as dreams of Poland greatness in days past. Or maybe improbable should be changed into exagerated.

I'm skeptical towards claims of greatness in days past that is just history now. It may be nostalgia speaking.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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09-08-2017, 10:49 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 10:45 AM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  We're doing exactly what the terrorists wanted us to - turning our backs on the principals of individual rights and freedoms that made us great. There's not a shred of doubt that the 3,000+ people that were killed on 09/11 is a great tragedy but we act like it was 30 million.

3000+ killed in any country would have been big. But there's an additional element to it. The USA hasn't seen war on it's own soil since 1865. It hasn't been exposed to all the terror we've seen in Europe in the 70ies and 80ies.

But I guess any country would have entered a state of hystery if more than 3000 people would have been killed in a single strike.

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09-08-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: Korea
@Stefan Mayerschoff

I doubt that terrorists care much about your freedoms as fear I think is just mean to an end to them, not end itself. Sooner I would say that it is politicians who overplay the threat to cow people in submission and it is them who are happy with population willing to trade real freedom for ilusory* safety.

Also when one talk about sniveling masses one should remember that gov in days past didn't have such means to frighten citizens like media of today. It's not lack of courage it is being bombarded by news made to feel one insecure.

*Ilusory as for example car accidents are greater danger.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-08-2017, 11:47 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 10:35 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 10:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  No the same situations but I'm not sure about being better than this - Native Americans would disagree, same with slaves in days past, Japanese killed in atomic explosions*, Vietnamese, Iraquis... USA I would say wasn't better than this - it's no evil empire to be sure but it's past isn't exactly story of moral superiority.


*Heard it was legitimate military action. But I also heard that it was a crime done to show Stalin US new toy.

Wysłane z mojego 6045K przy użyciu Tapatalka

I wasn't so much talking about moral superiority as courage. We used to be the "home of the brave" -- or at least that's what our national anthem claims. Now we're nothing but cowards and bullies. We're letting ourselves be ruled by fear, and by slimebags like Trump who capitalize on that fear. It's shameful and disgusting.

I would love to defend myself and my property. You talk of us handing over control to the republicans (Patriot Act). Obama furthered the patriot act and made it worse. The bleeding heart liberals in NJ make it damn near impossible to own a gun for self defense, because one of their precious minorities might get shot while breaking into someone's home. Neither party is doing a good job right now. The dems seem to think that to not invite the enemy (or potential enemies) into our country equals racism. That is not the way either.
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09-08-2017, 11:51 AM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 11:47 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 10:35 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I wasn't so much talking about moral superiority as courage. We used to be the "home of the brave" -- or at least that's what our national anthem claims. Now we're nothing but cowards and bullies. We're letting ourselves be ruled by fear, and by slimebags like Trump who capitalize on that fear. It's shameful and disgusting.

I would love to defend myself and my property. You talk of us handing over control to the republicans (Patriot Act). Obama furthered the patriot act and made it worse. The bleeding heart liberals in NJ make it damn near impossible to own a gun for self defense, because one of their precious minorities might get shot while breaking into someone's home. Neither party is doing a good job right now. The dems seem to think that to not invite the enemy (or potential enemies) into our country equals racism. That is not the way either.

Hold on there. I said nothing about Republicans or Democrats. This is a non-partisan (or bi-partisan) issue. The whole country has been cowering in a corner since 9/11. We need to find out where we hid our balls, dig them up and re-attach them, and stop being cowards. That's all. I am not blaming either party for this, but we have been letting fear control us, and that's what terrorists thrive on. It's not the way to beat them.
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09-08-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 11:47 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 10:35 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I wasn't so much talking about moral superiority as courage. We used to be the "home of the brave" -- or at least that's what our national anthem claims. Now we're nothing but cowards and bullies. We're letting ourselves be ruled by fear, and by slimebags like Trump who capitalize on that fear. It's shameful and disgusting.

I would love to defend myself and my property. You talk of us handing over control to the republicans (Patriot Act). Obama furthered the patriot act and made it worse. The bleeding heart liberals in NJ make it damn near impossible to own a gun for self defense, because one of their precious minorities might get shot while breaking into someone's home. Neither party is doing a good job right now. The dems seem to think that to not invite the enemy (or potential enemies) into our country equals racism. That is not the way either.

You're an idiot. When you bar an entire class of people, the majority of which are NOT enemies, simply because they share the same racial or religious characteristics, that's the textbook definition of discrimination/racism.

And pointing out to me that "Obama did it too" with regard to the Patriot Act will win you no points. It's one of the things I found most objectionable in an otherwise really great pair of presidential terms, along with his failure to close Gitmo.
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09-08-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 12:19 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 11:47 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I would love to defend myself and my property. You talk of us handing over control to the republicans (Patriot Act). Obama furthered the patriot act and made it worse. The bleeding heart liberals in NJ make it damn near impossible to own a gun for self defense, because one of their precious minorities might get shot while breaking into someone's home. Neither party is doing a good job right now. The dems seem to think that to not invite the enemy (or potential enemies) into our country equals racism. That is not the way either.

You're an idiot. When you bar an entire class of people, the majority of which are NOT enemies, simply because they share the same racial or religious characteristics, that's the textbook definition of discrimination/racism.

And pointing out to me that "Obama did it too" with regard to the Patriot Act will win you no points. It's one of the things I found most objectionable in an otherwise really great pair of presidential terms, along with his failure to close Gitmo.

We are not looking to bar them from entering the country based on their race (Islam is not a race) or religion. We (or at least myself) want to stop them, because they are not coming here with the same attitude that immigrants used to have. There was a time when they wanted to become a part of the culture. They are coming with the idea that they can bring about sharia law. They are making excellent progress. Already we have many fast food places afraid to serve pork (bacon), because they might be hit with a lawsuit. Little changes over time, makes countries and animal species unrecognizable after many generations. Some changes (cancer) are not good changes.
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