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09-08-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 01:46 PM)ShadowProject Wrote:  So...what is the answer?
I am asking this sincerely and in a completely non-political way.

How do we stop a potential nuclear war with a mad man and an entire country that raises their children to detest America?

The answer is do nothing, of course.

Kim won't attack. He will keep living in his comfy bubble, since he's not mad. His whole army is shit anyway. The nukes are the only thing keeping him alive and so he will stick to them.

So far he reacted to the colorful speech coming from the White House and when you listen closely to what he says, it's the usual asian hyperbolic choice of words. Not so much aimed at the West but at his own people and at China, speaking and understanding that kind of terminology.

And if even the nukes aren't deterrent enough, China won't sit idly by if the US was to try something. They may not root for Kim anymore, that doesn't mean though, they would react kindly to anyone taking action at their borders and sphere of influence.

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09-08-2017, 01:57 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 01:52 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 01:46 PM)ShadowProject Wrote:  So...what is the answer?
I am asking this sincerely and in a completely non-political way.

How do we stop a potential nuclear war with a mad man and an entire country that raises their children to detest America?

I think properly applied, international economic warfare can be more effective than a nuclear strike at achieving our objectives. We are still the largest world economy (with China right there) and through our alliances can bring to bear (by withholding) a substantial portion of the worldwide GDP.

Not as quick as a nuke, notably, but with significantly less collateral damage.

Well, there would be collateral damage, we just would not see the starving people dying of simple infections because there are no antibiotics.

I still agree on the economic pressure, but let's not pretend that is without human cost.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-08-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Korea
I think that one of the things that keeps NK the way it is is the closed borders. With little outside communication, it's easy to make sure that only approved ideas reach the masses. If the masses inside knew the standards of living of the masses outside, knew the freedoms they enjoy... I'd kill 'em with kindness myself. Trade will wreck their carefully constructed social order. My policy would be to lift all restrictions on trade, embrace them as our friends, make them - the nation as a whole - wealthy. The Kims would still be at the helm for a long time I imagine - they won't so easily lose their pre-eminence, nor will they initially allow free trade or trust that their enemies would do such an about face sincerely. But after a while, I think they would start to enjoy being a more prosperous nation themselves. And after a while longer, the reasons for keeping their onerous military burden would start to seem too much. A larger middle class, better educated, will challenge for leadership. Economic prosperity could end the NK crisis... that's my thought. I don't expect anyone to actually try such a radical experiment though.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-08-2017, 02:19 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 01:57 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 01:52 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  I think properly applied, international economic warfare can be more effective than a nuclear strike at achieving our objectives. We are still the largest world economy (with China right there) and through our alliances can bring to bear (by withholding) a substantial portion of the worldwide GDP.

Not as quick as a nuke, notably, but with significantly less collateral damage.

Well, there would be collateral damage, we just would not see the starving people dying of simple infections because there are no antibiotics.

I still agree on the economic pressure, but let's not pretend that is without human cost.

Right, I was careful to say "significantly less" as opposed to "without" or "none"
Just like Saddam and others had no compunction gassing their own people, I have no doubt that Un would gladly let his people starve in lieu of abdicating the seat of power.
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09-08-2017, 04:30 PM
RE: Korea
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/n-ko...ar-AApLbUA

Quote:North Korea's military calls Trump's threat a 'load of nonsense,' says 'only absolute force' can work on Trump
North Korea says it will complete plan to attack waters near Guam by mid-August then wait for commander in chief's order

They also said they would shoot missiles across Japan into Guam. I'm waiting for the complete transcript to show up online, but they also pretty much said that negotiating with Trump was pointless because he was nuts.

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09-08-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: Korea
Quote:The North is responding to Trump's threat in a statement from its military carried by state-run news agency KCNA. The statement says that "only absolute force" can work on someone as "bereft of reason" as Trump.
The North Korean statement also says the military action its army "is about to take" will be effective for restraining America's "frantic moves" in and near the southern part of the Korean Peninsula.
It says North Korea will complete a plan by mid-August for the "historic enveloping fire at Guam," convey it to the commander in chief of its nuclear force and then "wait for his order." North Korea says it will "keep closely watching the speech and behavior of the U.S."

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09-08-2017, 05:05 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 04:32 PM)Dom Wrote:  
Quote:The North is responding to Trump's threat in a statement from its military carried by state-run news agency KCNA. The statement says that "only absolute force" can work on someone as "bereft of reason" as Trump.
The North Korean statement also says the military action its army "is about to take" will be effective for restraining America's "frantic moves" in and near the southern part of the Korean Peninsula.
It says North Korea will complete a plan by mid-August for the "historic enveloping fire at Guam," convey it to the commander in chief of its nuclear force and then "wait for his order." North Korea says it will "keep closely watching the speech and behavior of the U.S."

Two nuts trying to out nut each other.

Great.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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09-08-2017, 05:39 PM
RE: Korea
Ugh Sad I don't think there is any good or easy solution.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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09-08-2017, 07:17 PM
RE: Korea
(08-08-2017 02:13 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  ...and yet they are somehow able to design nukes, and afford one of the largest armies in the world. I think we are probably underestimating the ability of a people (as a whole) to suffer and still be productive. The numbers support your position, but reality somehow seems to be different. Another possibility is of course that not only the ICMBs are mock, but the country is near breakup...

This makes for an interesting US versus N Korea comparison...

Comparison Results of World Military Strengths

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09-08-2017, 07:41 PM
RE: Korea
(09-08-2017 07:17 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 02:13 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  ...and yet they are somehow able to design nukes, and afford one of the largest armies in the world. I think we are probably underestimating the ability of a people (as a whole) to suffer and still be productive. The numbers support your position, but reality somehow seems to be different. Another possibility is of course that not only the ICMBs are mock, but the country is near breakup...

This makes for an interesting US versus N Korea comparison...

Comparison Results of World Military Strengths

interesting to look at, though some of those comparisons are misleading. Like naval assets, for example. There's a big difference between a Nimitz class carrier and an OSA missile boat.

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