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07-07-2017, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 12:30 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 12:10 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  In my 10 years on active duty, the democrats I knew mostly held admin jobs or were younger, single females. Almost everyone that carried a gun, worked around weapons or were in an actual combat fighting position were supporters of republicans, republican presidents especially.

This isn't exactly surprising. Men, on average, are more likely to vote Republican than Democrat. Soldiers in combat position are of two different groups, young men from ethnic groups or US held territory (Guam, Samoa, Puerto Rico) who rarelly vote when they are allowed to do so or poor white men from rural States who happen to vote much more often and almost systematically for the Republican party. I think that the US army ''voting habits'' has little to do with the US army position on politics, but more to do with its targetted demographic for recruitment. If the US army decided to shift its recruitment strategy to target young women in urban centers, you would see the voting habits of the US army change rather quickly. In Canada, there is a popular joke in our army: ''You vote Liberal when you want a pay raise and better retirement; you vote Conservative when you want new equipment.''. As for the propensy of Republican and Democrat President to launch a war, both are actually pretty equal. Trump did sold himself as an isolationist, but seem to follow in with a more ''classic'' interventionist foreign policy with his current strategy in Syria and North Korea. The man has flip-flopped a lot on many issues including this one.

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07-07-2017, 12:27 PM
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 12:15 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 12:10 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Well my numbers might have been off a bit, but my point still stands. The vast majority of military members VOTE Republican even if they are registered independent. Just look at exit polls in the elections. According to the NY Times exit poll, Trump garnered nearly 2/3 of the military vote.

In my 10 years on active duty, the democrats I knew mostly held admin jobs or were younger, single females. Almost everyone that carried a gun, worked around weapons or were in an actual combat fighting position were supporters of republicans, republican presidents especially.

What does this have to do with Korea? Why does every thread you post in have to turn into a bipartisan chasm?

It was relevant. It was about military support for action against Korea.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-07-2017, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 12:43 PM by adey67.)
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 11:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  What kills me is most people believe humanity can't survive doing what we're doing but when someone says what we need to do it's always oh we can't do that. On a long enough time line there's 100% chance of a nuclear holocaust if we keep nuclear weapons but disarming is an unacceptable risk. I'm naive? The real naiveté is the insistence that this mindset of might makes right is sustainable. You don't need to read anything. Just think it through.

I have Fred and giving into bullies and nut jobs never works, well, perhaps it would but at a price, if we gave in to the Islamists and gave them everything they wanted they'd just kick you in the teeth then drag you off to be beheaded or burned alive in a metal cage then take over the country implement sharia law and destroy any listed buildings that they considered un Islamic. Do you seriously want to see a lunatic regime like north Korea overtake the USA in military capability based on the unproven and extremely unlikely possibility that disarming might encourage them to get all warm fuzzy and reasonable ??
For unilateral disarmament to be effective requires the opposing parties to be reasonable non extremist, to share core values of fairness, understanding and a degree of tolerance, these are all qualities the majority of our greatest threats and enemies are either partially or completely lacking.
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07-07-2017, 12:34 PM
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 12:31 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 11:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  What kills me is most people believe humanity can't survive doing what we're doing but when someone says what we need to do it's always oh we can't do that. On a long enough time line there's 100% chance of a nuclear holocaust if we keep nuclear weapons but disarming is an unacceptable risk. I'm naive? The real naiveté is the insistence that this mindset of might makes right is sustainable. You don't need to read anything. Just think it through.

I have Fred and giving into bullies never works, well, perhaps it would but at a price, if we gave in to the Islamists and gave them everything they wanted they'd just kick you in the teeth then drag you of to be beheaded or burned alive in a metal cage then take over the country implement sharia law and destroy any listed buildings that they considered un Islamic. Do you seriously want to see a lunatic regime like north Korea overtake the USA in military capability based on the unproven and extremely unlikely possibility that disarming might encourage them to get all warm fuzzy and reasonable ??
For unilateral disarmament to be effective requires all parties to be reasonable non extremist, to share core values of fairness, understanding and a degree of tolerance, these are all qualities the majority of our greatest threats and enemies are either partially or completely lacking.

The wisdom lies here with knowing whether the threat is real or imagined. And you'll have to trust the intelligence agencies and powers that be with that.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-07-2017, 12:46 PM
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 12:31 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 11:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  What kills me is most people believe humanity can't survive doing what we're doing but when someone says what we need to do it's always oh we can't do that. On a long enough time line there's 100% chance of a nuclear holocaust if we keep nuclear weapons but disarming is an unacceptable risk. I'm naive? The real naiveté is the insistence that this mindset of might makes right is sustainable. You don't need to read anything. Just think it through.

I have Fred and giving into bullies and nut jobs never works, well, perhaps it would but at a price, if we gave in to the Islamists and gave them everything they wanted they'd just kick you in the teeth then drag you off to be beheaded or burned alive in a metal cage then take over the country implement sharia law and destroy any listed buildings that they considered un Islamic. Do you seriously want to see a lunatic regime like north Korea overtake the USA in military capability based on the unproven and extremely unlikely possibility that disarming might encourage them to get all warm fuzzy and reasonable ??
For unilateral disarmament to be effective requires all parties to be reasonable non extremist, to share core values of fairness, understanding and a degree of tolerance, these are all qualities the majority of our greatest threats and enemies are either partially or completely lacking.

I don't accept the premise that North Korea is more of a lunatic regime than America. We're the ones so brainwashed into believing in our inherent goodness that we actually think it's sane for us to be trusted with a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying mankind forever. At least, North Korea's insanity is self-contained. Ours is an existential menace to the entire planet. Try to explain to Americans that we ARE the bad guys then you'll see who's insane.
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07-07-2017, 12:49 PM
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 11:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  What kills me is most people believe humanity can't survive doing what we're doing but when someone says what we need to do it's always oh we can't do that. On a long enough time line there's 100% chance of a nuclear holocaust if we keep nuclear weapons but disarming is an unacceptable risk. I'm naive? The real naiveté is the insistence that this mindset of might makes right is sustainable. You don't need to read anything. Just think it through.

Nuclear disarmament is obviously a good thing. Unilateral disarmament, as you suggested earlier? Entirely unrealistic, when you're not only a nuclear-weapons holder, but a target as well. Relying on the good will of nations with a track-record of blackmail is not wise policy.

I'm all for negotiating the things away -- with all involved parties divesting themselves simultaneously.
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07-07-2017, 12:53 PM
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 12:27 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 12:15 PM)Dom Wrote:  What does this have to do with Korea? Why does every thread you post in have to turn into a bipartisan chasm?

It was relevant. It was about military support for action against Korea.

Voting habits do not translate to policy support for and individual policy, necessarily, especially when it's your ass on the line.

I've got no doubt that many of my Air Force colleagues would support bombing the shit out of the NoKors, and no doubt that many of them are wary of such an approach. I am sure that all of them would be happy to be part of the mailed fist in the event of us being attacked, but that doesn't translate into support of a first-strike policy.
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07-07-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Korea
(07-07-2017 12:46 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 12:31 PM)adey67 Wrote:  I have Fred and giving into bullies and nut jobs never works, well, perhaps it would but at a price, if we gave in to the Islamists and gave them everything they wanted they'd just kick you in the teeth then drag you off to be beheaded or burned alive in a metal cage then take over the country implement sharia law and destroy any listed buildings that they considered un Islamic. Do you seriously want to see a lunatic regime like north Korea overtake the USA in military capability based on the unproven and extremely unlikely possibility that disarming might encourage them to get all warm fuzzy and reasonable ??
For unilateral disarmament to be effective requires all parties to be reasonable non extremist, to share core values of fairness, understanding and a degree of tolerance, these are all qualities the majority of our greatest threats and enemies are either partially or completely lacking.

I don't accept the premise that North Korea is more of a lunatic regime than America. We're the ones so brainwashed into believing in our inherent goodness that we actually think it's sane for us to be trusted with a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying mankind forever. At least, North Korea's insanity is self-contained. Ours is an existential menace to the entire planet. Try to explain to Americans that we ARE the bad guys then you'll see who's insane.

Seriously especially after that kid who pulled down a poster and got ten years hard labour and then died shortly after repatriation? You seriously think there's no difference between the two powers ? Now, if you're terrified of nuclear war, so terrified you'd rather live under the yoke of oppression, knock yourself out, its your opinion and you are entitled to it but please don't try to make out there's no difference. North Koreas insanity is pretty much contained but it wouldn't be if the USA decided to unilaterally disarm. I know being a self hating American is quite trendy in some quarters but it doesn't work with me, I hate to see my friends across the pond doing this, sure America isn't any snow white but you're a damn sight better than many. Your opinions are your own and I'm glad you can enjoy and express them but don't forget my friend to ask yourself if those freedoms would be extended to you by other powers such as North Korea.
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07-07-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Korea
Did you know America imprisons many thousands of non-violent people who are routinely raped? Their crime was possession of a harmless plant called marijuana that brings joy into the world.
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07-07-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Korea
Quote:Your opinions are your own and I'm glad you can enjoy and express them but don't forget my friend to ask yourself if those freedoms would be extended to you by other powers such as North Korea.

North Korea has no history of meddling in American affairs. We get up in their ass every time they turn around. Their government isn't oppressing me and never has. My government is oppressing me and millions more OUTSIDE of America. I'm not worried about Kim Jung Un. I'm worried about Trump. If the North Koreans decide to revolt good for them.
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