Krauss (and Hitchens) vs Islam
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13-02-2014, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 09:13 PM by Youkay.)
Krauss (and Hitchens) vs Islam
Here is a debate of Lawrence Krauss against Hamza Tzortis. It is quite educating to see how Lawrence Krauss debunks Hamza's arguments and how he argues against Islam. But I also think that his opening was too aggressive, which in my opinion was a mistake and did not help his cause. I think he also relied on sterotypes and generalizations, which makes it easy to counter his point as a point out of ignorance. It is educational to see this and to determine for oneself what I want to do the same way and what I don't want to do the same way.

but of course, because he is representing the view of atheism, there is no way in hell that he would lose the debate.

Judge for yourself. I would be intrigued to know your opinions, too.








And here is Hitchen's debating against Tariq Ramadan. He takes an absolutely different approach but makes the same mistakes of simplification, generalization and bias.

Tariq does very well in depicting Islam in a way which counteracts western stereotypes, thereby undermining Hitchens arguments.

The topic of the debate was not whether Allah exists or not. It would have been an easier debate for Hitchens if it was. But as such, he had to venture into the theology of Islam and make claims that were, sadly, easily countered by Tariq.

it is important for us, who are going to debate not only christians, but also muslims, that we get rid of our biases, prejudices and stereotypes, so that our arguments can not be dismissed as being a point out of ignorance and prejudice.





It is good to hear from both Lawrence and Hitchens, as they might give us good examples and tools how to better arm ourselves for debates to come

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13-02-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Krauss vs Islam
I've said this in other threads, I think Lawrence is always a little too rough, that his disdain hurts him and his cause. I like the guy, and his mind, but his attitude needs some finesse. When ridicule is called for, use it, but don't open with it, otherwise you'll lose your audience.

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13-02-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Krauss vs Islam
(13-02-2014 10:19 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  I've said this in other threads, I think Lawrence is always a little too rough, that his disdain hurts him and his cause. I like the guy, and his mind, but his attitude needs some finesse. When ridicule is called for, use it, but don't open with it, otherwise you'll lose your audience.

Agreed, probably why my favorite example was Harris in his debate against WLC at Notre Dame. Whatever else you might say about him, Sam is a smooth public speaker with a gift for condensing 100,000 word ideas into a paragraph or two.

I still enjoy Krauss, but I agree with all your points as well.

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13-02-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Krauss vs Islam
But it was good to see how he refuted the deductive reasoning of Hamza. Simply by saying deductive reasoning is bullshit when it comes to subjects the mind can not grasp.

I would have loved to see Sam Harris instead of Lawrence Krauss here.

And I must grant to Hamza, that he sounded quite reasonable, but made some premises, which were not immediately clear to be stupid (unlike what we hear from creationists). His conclusions were nevertheless very biased. A deductive reasoning to a foregone conclusion.

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13-02-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Krauss vs Islam
(13-02-2014 10:04 AM)Youkay Wrote:  but of course, because he is representing the view of atheism, there is no way in hell that he would lose the debate.

Oh, is atheism the absolute truth now? You'd better have some evidence to support this broad claim.

Truth seeker.
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13-02-2014, 12:11 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 12:16 PM by Youkay.)
RE: Krauss vs Islam
(13-02-2014 12:05 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 10:04 AM)Youkay Wrote:  but of course, because he is representing the view of atheism, there is no way in hell that he would lose the debate.

Oh, is atheism the absolute truth now? You'd better have some evidence to support this broad claim.

Hahaha, no! Big Grin

Atheism in general does not mean to claim absolute knowledge of anything. Individual atheists, however, may go a step further and claim knowledge (not absolute) and effectively refute claims of knowledge based on evidence and proof. Like the creationist claim that states the earth is 6000 years old. We can easily refute that and say that it is wrong. But can we say for a certainty that it is 4 billion years old? No, we can't. It is very likely so, but not with a 100% certainty. We never claim absolute certainty.

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13-02-2014, 12:14 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 12:34 PM by Youkay.)
RE: Krauss vs Islam
I added Hitchen's debate against Islam

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13-02-2014, 12:49 PM
RE: Krauss (and Harris) vs Islam
(13-02-2014 12:05 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 10:04 AM)Youkay Wrote:  but of course, because he is representing the view of atheism, there is no way in hell that he would lose the debate.

Oh, is atheism the absolute truth now? You'd better have some evidence to support this broad claim.

Absolutely... Relatively speaking...
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15-02-2014, 12:20 AM
RE: Krauss (and Hitchens) vs Islam
I am searchig for debates in which the atheist clearly triumphs over the muslim. Neither Krauss nor Hitchens can say that they have been successful. Unfortunately, I can not find any debates on youtube. It seems that Islam is far less addressed by atheists and is far more seldom a topic of debate than christianity.

If anybody can find a good debate, please post it.

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15-02-2014, 12:30 AM
RE: Krauss (and Hitchens) vs Islam
Sam Harris has done some debates in Islam, and I think he wins pretty handily, but I'm biased.

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