LGBT (sub)section?
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16-06-2017, 07:25 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 07:15 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Be excellent to each other, my dudes and dudettes.

^This^ Can't you guys call a truce? I think everyone has made some good points and unfortunately all that gets caught up in name calling on both sides. I like all of you and hate seeing you attack each other.
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16-06-2017, 07:25 AM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2017 08:31 AM by Vera.)
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
So, when Emma gets offended at being called tranny (a deeply transphobic slur) and AIDS (what infantile excuse for a brain even does this?) it's her fault for being offended.

When I call the person who publicly told a woman her cunt made the Grand Canyon look like a crack in a pavement out on it, you ride in on a high horse, all moral indignation and superiority?

You know, Ato, I don't give a fuck if you're surprised, slightly or otherwise.

And I pity every single person on this forum (and in general) who thinks flinging transphobic abuse at people is okay and that the abused one should just grow a thick skin.


Jenny, what exactly is the good point of calling people trannies (repeatedly) and AIDS? I kind of fail to see it. Drinking Beverage

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16-06-2017, 07:36 AM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2017 07:44 AM by Emma.)
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
I'll say this about bigoted language. Everyone is free to say whatever shit they want. And I'm free to not be silent when something pisses me off, or if I know that it's unjust and plain harmful.

I personally know what it is to sit by while people throw around words like "tranny" and "shim" and "he-she" knowing that they are talking about people just like me- but they don't know it because I wasn't out yet. I hadn't even fully accepted it myself, and I felt the shame and fear from it. I have memories of being on a bus while everyone on the bus joined in to laugh at a lady they thought was transgender- throwing around that shitty language. I know the shame so deep and depression so chronic that I thought it was normal for everyone to feel that about themselves. When other people don't speak out against that shit, those oppressed by the language feel like everyone else must hate them because they're okay with it-- that they must feel the same.

I don't feel that anymore. But not everyone has the strength to "grow a thicker skin". Not everyone can endure. I was lucky, I had support from friends and family. Not everyone does. And I'm sure as shit not going to sit silently by while people talk like that and think it's okay. We call people bigots when they behave as bigots.

When people say the N-word we know that it affects people. Do we defend the white people who say? No- not as a whole, we don't. We defend their right to say it, but we call them out on their shitty behavior when they do. We don't jail them, we don't block them, but we also don't have to listen to them and we don't have to be quiet about it.
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16-06-2017, 07:44 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 07:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 07:15 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Aren't your offenses or your proclivity to be offended your problem? Like I don't know why it's Muff's or anyone else's responsibility to assuage you. How about the ignore button and also just generally treat them with ambivalence. It's like refusing to turn off the TV when someone sees something they dislike, turn to a different channel. Also, I have a problem
with the idea that words are offensive inherently, any word can be offensive, am I supposed to watch my mouth in order to please people? I think that's something that needs to be a freely given consideration, not an expected obligation.

And Vera, I'm a tiny bit surprised at the name calling. Gasp But it's whatever, I just kind raised my eyebrows.

As for The issue of the subforum, if it's to talk about issues that only gay people can comment, I think that it's fine, I also believe that this community is open enough to have a sensible discussion and let a discussion flourish here with little to no obstruction. Then again, this is the stupid dumbass kid who got the teen subforum.

Be excellent to each other, my dudes and dudettes.

And so, I would suggest that anyone offended by my reaction to toxic language and behavior do what they would prescribe for me.

Oh, I ignore offended people all the time, but it's hard to ignore them when they demand MY behavior change. Especially when they task other people with the challenge of preventing them getting offended.

Language is only toxic if you let it get to you.

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16-06-2017, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2017 08:00 AM by Emma.)
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 07:44 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 07:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  And so, I would suggest that anyone offended by my reaction to toxic language and behavior do what they would prescribe for me.

Oh, I ignore offended people all the time, but it's hard to ignore them when they demand MY behavior change. Especially when they task other people with the challenge of preventing them getting offended.

Language is only toxic if you let it get to you.

That's bullshit. Language is a basic and integral part of our society. You think it's possible for something basic and integral to simply "not affect if you don't let it get to you"? Come on...

Edit: I recognize that it does go both ways- some people are very easily affected by words and language, while others simply are not. Part of "being excellent to one another" is recognizing that you also have the power of controlling your language, to speak respectfully each other. Why is it that you say "be excellent to one another" right after saying people don't have to take responsibility for their own words because it's up to the individual if they are offended or not? You're essentially suggesting that those offended by language are the ones in err. And that carries the message that the offended should shut up about it and get over it and just be cool to the offenders. Fuck that.
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16-06-2017, 08:08 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 07:44 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 07:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  And so, I would suggest that anyone offended by my reaction to toxic language and behavior do what they would prescribe for me.

Oh, I ignore offended people all the time, but it's hard to ignore them when they demand MY behavior change. Especially when they task other people with the challenge of preventing them getting offended.

Language is only toxic if you let it get to you.

I think it's more than someone simply calling you a name or using language you don't like though. I think there's a level of fear that goes along with it. For instance, if I was at a bar with a trans friend and someone walked by and said "Tranny" with a look of disgust, I would be fearful of my friend's safety. Here in the US, use of that word brings a level of fear along with it.

That said, in the case of the forum, obviously, I don't think EM was trying to incite fear, I just don't think that word carries the same connotation for him as it does for Emma and so he has no problems using it. And I think he likes to be provocative.

In general though, I agree with you, don't let someone else's word choice impact you. I think that's easier said than done though, especially when some words come packed with an emotional trigger.
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16-06-2017, 08:13 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 07:50 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 07:44 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Oh, I ignore offended people all the time, but it's hard to ignore them when they demand MY behavior change. Especially when they task other people with the challenge of preventing them getting offended.

Language is only toxic if you let it get to you.

That's bullshit. Language is a basic and integral part of our society. You think it's possible for something basic and integral to simply "not affect if you don't let it get to you"? Come on...

Edit: I recognize that it does go both ways- some people are very easily affected by words and language, while others simply are not. Part of "being excellent to one another" is recognizing that you also have the power of controlling your language, to speak respectfully each other. Why is it that you say "be excellent to one another" right after saying people don't have to take responsibility for their own words because it's up to the individual if they are offended or not? You're essentially suggesting that those offended by language are the ones in err. And that carries the message that the offended should shut up about it and get over it and just be cool to the offenders. Fuck that.

I took it to mean: Free speech, people are going to say what they are going to say, either way, don't let what comes out of their mouths impact you. (I know that's not easy to do). Even with the ability of free speech, choose to be excellent to each other instead of tearing each other down.
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16-06-2017, 08:26 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 08:13 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 07:50 AM)Emma Wrote:  That's bullshit. Language is a basic and integral part of our society. You think it's possible for something basic and integral to simply "not affect if you don't let it get to you"? Come on...

Edit: I recognize that it does go both ways- some people are very easily affected by words and language, while others simply are not. Part of "being excellent to one another" is recognizing that you also have the power of controlling your language, to speak respectfully each other. Why is it that you say "be excellent to one another" right after saying people don't have to take responsibility for their own words because it's up to the individual if they are offended or not? You're essentially suggesting that those offended by language are the ones in err. And that carries the message that the offended should shut up about it and get over it and just be cool to the offenders. Fuck that.

I took it to mean: Free speech, people are going to say what they are going to say, either way, don't let what comes out of their mouths impact you. (I know that's not easy to do). Even with the ability of free speech, choose to be excellent to each other instead of tearing each other down.

Exactly. I admire the ability to act respectful even with the freedom and recognition of the fact that they don't have to.

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16-06-2017, 08:27 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 08:13 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 07:50 AM)Emma Wrote:  That's bullshit. Language is a basic and integral part of our society. You think it's possible for something basic and integral to simply "not affect if you don't let it get to you"? Come on...

Edit: I recognize that it does go both ways- some people are very easily affected by words and language, while others simply are not. Part of "being excellent to one another" is recognizing that you also have the power of controlling your language, to speak respectfully each other. Why is it that you say "be excellent to one another" right after saying people don't have to take responsibility for their own words because it's up to the individual if they are offended or not? You're essentially suggesting that those offended by language are the ones in err. And that carries the message that the offended should shut up about it and get over it and just be cool to the offenders. Fuck that.

I took it to mean: Free speech, people are going to say what they are going to say, either way, don't let what comes out of their mouths impact you. (I know that's not easy to do). Even with the ability of free speech, choose to be excellent to each other instead of tearing each other down.

Maybe that's a fairer interpretation of what he was saying. But I read it differently given that these are the same types of arguments used by anti-PC individuals quite often.

We all know that psychology is not as simple as saying "it's just words, get over it". And we all know that some people are so sensitive that you'll never please them (and to some of you, I know it appears that I'm in this group). At least, I hope we all know those things.

I just want people to try. That's part of being excellent to each other, is it not?
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16-06-2017, 08:28 AM
RE: LGBT (sub)section?
(16-06-2017 07:25 AM)Vera Wrote:  So, when Emma gets offended at being called tranny (a deeply transphobic slur) and AIDS (what infantile excuse for a brain even does this?) it's her fault for being offended.

When I call the person who publicly told a woman her cunt made the Grand Canyon look like a crack in a pavement out on it, you ride in on a high horse, or moral indignation and superiority?

You know, Ato, I don't give a fuck if you're surprised, slightly or otherwise.

And I pity every single person on this forum (and in general) who thinks flinging transphobic abuse at people is okay and that the abused one should just grow a thick skin.


Jenny, what exactly is the good point of calling people trannies (repeatedly) and AIDS? I kind of fail to see it. Drinking Beverage

That wasn't the good point I was referring to Tongue I liked that Ato said be excellent to each other, dudes and dudettes, stop tearing each other down.
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