LaVeyan Satanism
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21-10-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 05:42 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:Maybe it isn't better. Maybe I just prefer it. Chas finds it silly. I just find the idea more descriptive of myself. Maybe it's better to call oneself an agnostic rather than atheist, what with its bad connotation and agnosticism's nicer, less argumentative connotation.
Except that atheism and agnosticism don't mean the same thing, therefore are not interchangeable.

What I don't like about LaVeyan Satanism is that it preaches against being sheeplike, yet the people have rules (yes, often rules against being sheeplike). I used to write for some satanism zines in the '90s, and I got into huge letter-writing arguments with CoS members about how stupid certain rules were, such as rules against doing drugs. I don't even do drugs, but who the fuck is LaVey to tell me I can't smoke pot? I don't know how it is now, but back then, people hung on everything he wrote and followed it dogmatically, just replacing their Christian upbringing with a hip new rebellious term for themselves. I have no problem with people modelling themselves after the character of Satan. Non serviam, and all that. But many people are dumb, and seem to miss the point, which is why I distanced myself from that group of people.

Some people were dumb, so we're all dumb? See, disassociation with an entire group because you didn't like some of the people also involved, to me, seems silly. Especially since you don't ever have to talk to them. Again, the idea behind Satanism is not to conform to the teachings. You join if you already agreed. Agnosticism and atheism might as well mean the same thing. They're both a lack of belief in a god. Agnosticism just has a nicer, happier ring to it of a lack of certainty. Most atheists are agnostics.

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21-10-2012, 05:53 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 05:42 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 05:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Duh. Probably been doing that longer than you've been alive.

That was meant more for Chas. ^^

My bad. .... Blush

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21-10-2012, 05:58 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 05:49 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  Some people were dumb, so we're all dumb? See, disassociation with an entire group because you didn't like some of the people also involved, to me, seems silly. Especially since you don't ever have to talk to them. Again, the idea behind Satanism is not to conform to the teachings. You join if you already agreed. Agnosticism and atheism might as well mean the same thing. They're both a lack of belief in a god. Agnosticism just has a nicer, happier ring to it of a lack of certainty. Most atheists are agnostics.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said "all satanists are dumb." I said that personally, I stopped calling myself a satanist in my early teenage years because "secular humanist" fit me better. I didn't say I disliked some of the people involved, they were all good friends of mine, in fact. Many of them still are good friends of mine. You can have arguments and still like a person. And I am saying some people are dumb and conform to it dogmatically, and I'd rather not be associated with those people. Eventually I rethought my choice of terminology for myself, not for other people.

Agnosticism in not the same as atheism, wtf.
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21-10-2012, 06:01 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 05:49 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  Non serviam, and all that.

Is there some sorta master other than ourselves we are looking to serve?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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21-10-2012, 06:02 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 05:58 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 05:49 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  Some people were dumb, so we're all dumb? See, disassociation with an entire group because you didn't like some of the people also involved, to me, seems silly. Especially since you don't ever have to talk to them. Again, the idea behind Satanism is not to conform to the teachings. You join if you already agreed. Agnosticism and atheism might as well mean the same thing. They're both a lack of belief in a god. Agnosticism just has a nicer, happier ring to it of a lack of certainty. Most atheists are agnostics.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said "all satanists are dumb." I said that personally, I stopped calling myself a satanist in my early teenage years because "secular humanist" fit me better. I didn't say I disliked some of the people involved, they were all good friends of mine, in fact. Many of them still are good friends of mine. You can have arguments and still like a person. And I am saying some people are dumb and conform to it dogmatically, and I'd rather not be associated with those people. Eventually I rethought my choice of terminology for myself, not for other people.

Agnosticism in not the same as atheism, wtf.

Okay, I misread your comment then. Forgive me.

And fine, agnosticism and atheism are now separate animals. I'm sorry. To me, for all intents and purposes, an agnostic is an atheist since they both lack a belief in god.

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21-10-2012, 06:03 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 06:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 05:49 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  Non serviam, and all that.

Is there some sorta master other than ourselves we are looking to serve?
I always took it to mean not serving anyone, including Anton LaVey and whoever followed him.
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21-10-2012, 06:10 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 06:03 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 06:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Is there some sorta master other than ourselves we are looking to serve?
I always took it to mean not serving anyone, including Anton LaVey and whoever followed him.

Well I certainly hope you don't think I'm trying to blindly serve someone. My adherence to Satanism us certainly not to please him. Especially since he's dead. You can't please dead people. They're dead. That's just silly. :3

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21-10-2012, 06:17 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 05:42 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 05:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Duh. Probably been doing that longer than you've been alive.

That was meant more for Chas. ^^

"Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained."

Really? We're done here.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-10-2012, 06:35 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2012 06:51 PM by Julius.)
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 11:21 AM)Nevermore Wrote:  Evil_monster

When I first introduced myself on this site, I mentioned I was a LaVeyan Satanist. A few people told me I should make a thread about it to expand on what it is. I was a little surprised honestly. I mean, TTA podcast did an entire episode on it and even had an interview with the high priest. Though I guess it was a bit lacking in the serious philosophy of Satanism. It was a bit of an overview. What you may have gotten out of it is that Satanism is not the stereotypical religion you might have thought it was. We don't worship Satan, we don't sacrifice animals etc.
However, Satanic philosophy goes much deeper than that. No, it isn't just "look out for yourself." Though that is a big part of it. Allow me to elaborate.

First, if you want explanations way better than mine, here are some sources:
The Church of Satan Web site
Philosophy of the Church of Satan - "Satanism as Weltanschauung" by Kevin Slaughter
The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey
Only $7.99 plus S/H to sell your soul. Cheap huh? And you're allowed to have sex before marriage. Satan: 1, Jesus: 0.

Seriously though, let's talk philosophy.
LaVeyan Satanism has three special lists that do something of a summary of its philosophy. We have Nine Satanic Statements, Nine Satanic Sins and Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth.

The Nine Satanic Statements:
  1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
  2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
  3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
  4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
  5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
  6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!*
  7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
  8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
  9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

*A psychic vampire is an abstract term for someone who basically sucks the goodness from your life by constantly demanding favors without offering anything in return.

The Nine Satanic Sins:
  1. Stupidity
  2. Pretentiousness
  3. Solipsism
  4. Self-deceit
  5. Herd conformity
  6. Lack of perspective
  7. Forgetfulness of past orthodoxies
  8. Counterproductive pride
  9. Lack of aesthetics


The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth:
  1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
  2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
  3. When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
  4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
  5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
  6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
  7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
  8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
  9. Do not harm little children.
  10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
  11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.


As you might have gathered from the Nine Satanic Statements, we use Satan as a symbol. We use his original name to represent "the adversary". As we are adversaries to spiritual religions. Satanism prides itself in being the first above ground religion to venerate the carnal. We reject all that is spiritual. All the "white-light" religion such as Christianity, Islam, Wicca etc. But let it be perfectly clear that, no matter what you've been told, we don't worship Satan. We believe that it is important for man to make himself his own god. Since man has made his own gods for so long, and they've all just been personifications of his own ego. Your ego is something to be venerated. So instead of making your ego into a separate entity, embrace it. When you become your own god, you become the most important person to please. Then you will go out of your way to make yourself happy. This doesn't mean you're the only person important to you. Of course you have care for those who are close to you. Like the fourth Satanic Statement, love to those who deserve it. You cannot love everyone. That's foolish. If your love is not discriminatory, then it is meaningless. Don't love your enemy, hate them. If you try to love your enemies, that puts you at their mercy.

Now, about the actual Church of Satan. First, I'm not a member yet. You cannot join unless you are at least of the age of eighteen, simply to protect the young from people who might try to manipulate them. Because I'm not a member, I cannot speak for The Church of Satan, only about it. I'm certainly not the representative here. The Church of Satan is not a physical building. It's an abstract organization of like minded people who associate with the religion. It is not necessary of Satanists to join the Church, as it costs money and some people just don't like being a part of such organizations. If you do join, however, it is kept completely confidential. It should come as no surprise that people such as teachers, politicians and doctors wouldn't want the news getting out that they're Satanists. The Church is merely a tool for people to connect with others who think more like them.

Ritual is another part of Satanism. It's also the most misunderstood part. Satanists see magic and ritual in a different way than most religions do. Magic is defined in The Satanic Bible as "The change in situations or events in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be unchangeable." There are two forms of magic in Satanism: Lesser and Greater magic. Lesser magic is non-ritual. An example of lesser magic might be a woman using her sexual appeal to persuade a more weak-minded male into giving her a discount on a piece of jewelry. Greater magic is ritualistic. Rituals are often very theatrical and are original to every Satanist. The ritual is meant to be an empowering psychodrama. It's a time in which you disconnect yourself from your reasoning and intellectual skepticism and enter a fantastic realm where magic and demons are real, and you use them to your advantage. These are meant to relieve emotions that might be dragging you down or keeping you from your goals. The three most common rituals are lust, compassion and destruction rituals. If you're like me and just aren't very good with the ladies, and your sexual desires are getting in your way, you might do a lust ritual, which will most likely involve masturbation, to relieve these. In the ritual, you might "call upon" demons or spirits to infiltrate the mind of the person you desire to bring them to you. To make them feel relentlessly attracted to you. Of course, Satanists don't actually believe such demons exist. But that's the point of ritual. Some Satanists do believe, however, that if your will and emotions are powerful enough, your desire might be fulfilled. Hence the seventh Rule of the Earth. It isn't required of Satanists to believe or even do rituals, it's just there as an option. You might just do it because it's fun. There's nothing wrong with having some fun. Destruction rituals are especially fun. Some might craft dolls or an effigy of someone they hate and stick needles in it or smash it or burn it.

Now I'm going to go through some FAQ's. Things I've been asked after explaining these things or things I've seen asked.

Q: Why do you need a book to tell you how to live? Aren't you just as bad as the Christians?
A: Not exactly. You see, no Satanist needs The Satanic Bible or even Satanism for that matter. Anton LaVey has even said that they aren't looking for sheep who will conform to some other standard. If you conform yourself to Satanism, you're a herd conformist. Something frowned upon by Satanists.

Q: Why would you want to associate with Satan? Isn't he supposed to be a bad guy?
A: Yes, he is. Perhaps that's what's so appealing of him. One important thing to note about Satanists is that we aren't afraid of losing our "good-guy badges". What's a good-guy badge? Well, a good-guy badge is a figurative thing that represents your supposed "goodness" in modern society. If you're a Christian, you tend to automatically have a good-guy badge. When someone associates with Satanism, they forfeit their good-guy badge because they're looked upon as a danger.

Q: Is Satanism for everyone?
A: No. Just being an atheist doesn't make you a Satanist. If this way of life doesn't appeal to you, don't do it.

Q: Do you think it's best for the mainstream atheist community to distance itself from Satanism?
A: Probably. But if we're so willing to align with feminists, I can't see how Satanism is much different.

Q: How much does it cost to join?
A: $200 to join the Church of Satan. And that's the only payment you'll ever have to make.


So I hope I've covered enough. I know I'm not very good at writing, so if you have any questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them. Just remember, I can't speak on behalf of the Church of Satan.

Hail Satan.

I looked at the Satanic Website you posted and read what was on it and...it sucks. You haven't found intellectual or spiritual freedom, you have just exchanged one set of dogma for another: one religion for another. And...what is so bad about Satanism is that it defines itself in terms of Christianity - not exactly original thinking, and certainly not reasonable. It looks like Satanism is just Christianity in Reverse for the most part, as if someone noticing that since Christian doctrine is so screwed-up, then assumes that the opposite to Christianities' main doctrines must be reasonable: it's an argument using flawed premises.

As a result, I can't figure why you would think an Atheist community wouldn't be just as disgusted with Satanism as they would Christianity - because at the heart of both Satanism and Christianity is unreasonable assumptions, flawed logic, dogma and the supernatural.

This doesn't impress me.
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21-10-2012, 06:42 PM
RE: LaVeyan Satanism
(21-10-2012 06:10 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  My adherence to Satanism us certainly not to please him. Especially since he's dead. You can't please dead people. They're dead. That's just silly. :3
He was still alive when I was reading about Satanism. I was talking about the general feeling I got from CoS members at that time. I haven't had much interest in what the CoS has been up to since the 90s.

And to the later posters, some satanists are atheists in the usual sense, some believe in woo. And then there are devil worshipers, which is what most people think "satanist" refers to, which is one reason I don't like the term.
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