Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
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03-03-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
As a teen I ordered a lot of my clothes from the Sears catalog. It's not like there was a mall or a clothing store in the town where I grew up. Anyone else remember the Hang Ten brand? I had jeans and shorts and T-shirts with the Hang Ten logo.

I remember years of pouring through the Sears Christmas catalog. Cover to cover, every year.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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03-03-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 07:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 06:46 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  What is legal and what is reality is often two different things.

http://news.trust.org//item/?map=female-...es-report/

As well as the fact that male circumcision is not the same procedure as female genital mutilation. That's like saying a tummy tuck is the same as an organ removal surgery.

(btw, I did not have my son circumcised 26yrs ago as I do not approve of the procedure unless medically necessary).

This is all about what is legal, so long as the laws are enforced. You cannot go to a hospital in the US, give birth to a little girl, and have her clit chopped off. Just because there are people finding way around the law doesn't make it a right. If it did I'd also have the right to steal, rape, and murder, so long as I can either not get caught doing it, or by finding a place outside my home country which allowed it. And yes, there are places that are tolerant of rape and murder if justified by that countries religious laws.

I'm not naive enough to believe that cutting off foreskin and cutting off the clit is the same thing, and yes, the girls have it worse. It is the closest possible comparison and they should be treated with the same amount of contempt though, IMO. If adults want to chop their own bits off, or if there is a medical need to chop bits off, so be it.

Just because you can't go to a hospital doesn't mean you can't go to a clinic or Drs office and have this done. It's not legal but it is available.

And it's also not legal to remove a boys genitals either so that IS the same in law as not removing a girls genitals. It is not legal to remove the genitals in either gender without a medical issue to justify it.

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03-03-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 08:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As a teen I ordered a lot of my clothes from the Sears catalog. It's not like there was a mall or a clothing store in the town where I grew up. Anyone else remember the Hang Ten brand? I had jeans and shorts and T-shirts with the Hang Ten logo.

I remember years of pouring through the Sears Christmas catalog. Cover to cover, every year.

For me it was the speigle catalog. I would pick out all my school clothes from it. Heart

I had a few older cousins and I'd get their hang ten hand me downs. Smile


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-03-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 08:36 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 07:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is all about what is legal, so long as the laws are enforced. You cannot go to a hospital in the US, give birth to a little girl, and have her clit chopped off. Just because there are people finding way around the law doesn't make it a right. If it did I'd also have the right to steal, rape, and murder, so long as I can either not get caught doing it, or by finding a place outside my home country which allowed it. And yes, there are places that are tolerant of rape and murder if justified by that countries religious laws.

I'm not naive enough to believe that cutting off foreskin and cutting off the clit is the same thing, and yes, the girls have it worse. It is the closest possible comparison and they should be treated with the same amount of contempt though, IMO. If adults want to chop their own bits off, or if there is a medical need to chop bits off, so be it.

Just because you can't go to a hospital doesn't mean you can't go to a clinic or Drs office and have this done. It's not legal but it is available.

And it's also not legal to remove a boys genitals either so that IS the same in law as not removing a girls genitals. It is not legal to remove the genitals in either gender without a medical issue to justify it.
I should let you all know that male circumsision is, in fact, legal in every state in the US. Circumsision is removing a part of the male genitalia. If she is making a distinction between circumsision and removing literally the whole sex organ, I'm not sure to what end, since nobody here has contended that it is the same.

There is a specific law which criminalizes genital mutilation on girls. No such law exists for boys. Now, Assault and bodily harm laws no doubt criminalize entire removal of anothers sex organ without (or with) their consent; These laws are gender neutral, however. Both genders have these same legal rights.

There exists no law that specifically grants men a legal right but also omits granting the same legal right to women, in the US. There does, though, exist a law that only pertains to the rights of women, at the exclusion of men, in the US. Thus women objectively have more legal rights than men in the US. (Not even counting the requirment to register for SS, but that applies, too.)

(also, mods, maybe this thread should be parted? Prob not necessary though because I doubt anyone is going to contest facts. Why create a new thread that ends with the OP?)
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03-03-2016, 09:32 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 08:36 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 07:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is all about what is legal, so long as the laws are enforced. You cannot go to a hospital in the US, give birth to a little girl, and have her clit chopped off. Just because there are people finding way around the law doesn't make it a right. If it did I'd also have the right to steal, rape, and murder, so long as I can either not get caught doing it, or by finding a place outside my home country which allowed it. And yes, there are places that are tolerant of rape and murder if justified by that countries religious laws.

I'm not naive enough to believe that cutting off foreskin and cutting off the clit is the same thing, and yes, the girls have it worse. It is the closest possible comparison and they should be treated with the same amount of contempt though, IMO. If adults want to chop their own bits off, or if there is a medical need to chop bits off, so be it.

Just because you can't go to a hospital doesn't mean you can't go to a clinic or Drs office and have this done. It's not legal but it is available.

And it's also not legal to remove a boys genitals either so that IS the same in law as not removing a girls genitals. It is not legal to remove the genitals in either gender without a medical issue to justify it.

You missed my point entirely. I articulated the best way I could, but I'll give it another try...

Being able to do something is not the same thing as having the right to do something. Ie, I can murder someone, but I do not have the right to murder someone.

No one here said anything about removing genitals. We are talking about removing parts of genitals. A clitoris is part of female genitals, and the part which is most often removed by certain groups of people. I know of no group that is removing girls vulvas, for example. You can legally have a part of a boy's genitals removed, specifically the foreskin of the penis without any medical justification whatsoever. Doctors even offer to do the procedure unsolicited upon birth. Hospitals often keep devices on standby for the purpose of removing the foreskin. You will find no device designed for the purpose of removing any part of a woman's genitals. You will not be given the offer to have any bits of a girls genitals removed. IF you do find a doctor who is willing to illegally remove a part of a girls genitals and you go forward with it (and all parties are found out and proved to have done it) you will likely go to prison, the doctor will lose their license to practice medicine, and they will likely go to prison as well. There will quite rightly be outrage by the general public in this country. Surely you can see the double-standard in the eyes of the law.

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03-03-2016, 09:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2016 09:56 PM by Heatheness.)
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 09:32 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 08:36 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Just because you can't go to a hospital doesn't mean you can't go to a clinic or Drs office and have this done. It's not legal but it is available.

And it's also not legal to remove a boys genitals either so that IS the same in law as not removing a girls genitals. It is not legal to remove the genitals in either gender without a medical issue to justify it.

You missed my point entirely. I articulated the best way I could, but I'll give it another try...

Being able to do something is not the same thing as having the right to do something. Ie, I can murder someone, but I do not have the right to murder someone.

No one here said anything about removing genitals. We are talking about removing parts of genitals. A clitoris is part of female genitals, and the part which is most often removed by certain groups of people. I know of no group that is removing girls vulvas, for example. You can legally have a part of a boy's genitals removed, specifically the foreskin of the penis without any medical justification whatsoever. Doctors even offer to do the procedure unsolicited upon birth. Hospitals often keep devices on standby for the purpose of removing the foreskin. You will find no device designed for the purpose of removing any part of a woman's genitals. You will not be given the offer to have any bits of a girls genitals removed. IF you do find a doctor who is willing to illegally remove a part of a girls genitals and you go forward with it (and all parties are found out and proved to have done it) you will likely go to prison, the doctor will lose their license to practice medicine, and they will likely go to prison as well. There will quite rightly be outrage by the general public in this country. Surely you can see the double-standard in the eyes of the law.

No, because removing some of the foreskin is not equal to removing the clitoris or vulva (and yes they do, do this). They are two different things with different purposes. The laws are not the same because the body parts are not the same. There isn't a law specifically to make it illegal to remove a boys penis because no one wants to do that to boys. If they did there would be a need for that law and it would happen. There are people who want to remove a girls clitoris/vulva so a law was created to protect them.

Think of it this way: There are laws to protect a woman's right to have an abortion and just because there is no law that protects a man right to have an abortion doesn't mean men have less rights. It means men have less needs for protection.

Edit: Just so we are clear, removal of part the foreskin is not equal to removal of the clitoris. The removing of the penis is equal to removing of the clitoris. That is why I used it as the comparison.

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03-03-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 09:51 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 09:32 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You missed my point entirely. I articulated the best way I could, but I'll give it another try...

Being able to do something is not the same thing as having the right to do something. Ie, I can murder someone, but I do not have the right to murder someone.

No one here said anything about removing genitals. We are talking about removing parts of genitals. A clitoris is part of female genitals, and the part which is most often removed by certain groups of people. I know of no group that is removing girls vulvas, for example. You can legally have a part of a boy's genitals removed, specifically the foreskin of the penis without any medical justification whatsoever. Doctors even offer to do the procedure unsolicited upon birth. Hospitals often keep devices on standby for the purpose of removing the foreskin. You will find no device designed for the purpose of removing any part of a woman's genitals. You will not be given the offer to have any bits of a girls genitals removed. IF you do find a doctor who is willing to illegally remove a part of a girls genitals and you go forward with it (and all parties are found out and proved to have done it) you will likely go to prison, the doctor will lose their license to practice medicine, and they will likely go to prison as well. There will quite rightly be outrage by the general public in this country. Surely you can see the double-standard in the eyes of the law.

No, because removing some of the foreskin is not equal to removing the clitoris or vulva (and yes they do, do this). They are two different things with different purposes. The laws are not the same because the body parts are not the same. There isn't a law specifically to make it illegal to remove a boys penis because no one wants to do that to boys. If they did there would be a need for that law and it would happen. There are people who want to remove a girls clitoris/vulva so a law was created to protect them.

Think of it this way: There are laws to protect a woman's right to have an abortion and just because there is no law that protects a man right to have an abortion doesn't mean men have less rights. It means men have less needs for protection.

Actually it means precisely both of those things.

There is nothing inherently wrong with one gender having more and/or different rights, yes; because they are different. Nobody is contesting this, though.
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03-03-2016, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2016 10:10 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
(03-03-2016 09:51 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 09:32 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You missed my point entirely. I articulated the best way I could, but I'll give it another try...

Being able to do something is not the same thing as having the right to do something. Ie, I can murder someone, but I do not have the right to murder someone.

No one here said anything about removing genitals. We are talking about removing parts of genitals. A clitoris is part of female genitals, and the part which is most often removed by certain groups of people. I know of no group that is removing girls vulvas, for example. You can legally have a part of a boy's genitals removed, specifically the foreskin of the penis without any medical justification whatsoever. Doctors even offer to do the procedure unsolicited upon birth. Hospitals often keep devices on standby for the purpose of removing the foreskin. You will find no device designed for the purpose of removing any part of a woman's genitals. You will not be given the offer to have any bits of a girls genitals removed. IF you do find a doctor who is willing to illegally remove a part of a girls genitals and you go forward with it (and all parties are found out and proved to have done it) you will likely go to prison, the doctor will lose their license to practice medicine, and they will likely go to prison as well. There will quite rightly be outrage by the general public in this country. Surely you can see the double-standard in the eyes of the law.

No, because removing some of the foreskin is not equal to removing the clitoris or vulva (and yes they do, do this). They are two different things with different purposes. The laws are not the same because the body parts are not the same. There isn't a law specifically to make it illegal to remove a boys penis because no one wants to do that to boys. If they did there would be a need for that law and it would happen. There are people who want to remove a girls clitoris/vulva so a law was created to protect them.

Think of it this way: There are laws to protect a woman's right to have an abortion and just because there is no law that protects a man right to have an abortion doesn't mean men have less rights. It means men have less needs for protection.

I already said it wasn't the same thing. You chose to ignore that part of my previous post. Your abortion blurb is stupid. I don't need anyone to tell me that people with penises don't need abortion laws to protect the contents of their non-existent uterus. I never even said that men had fewer rights than women - that was Gilgamesh. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but it's ultimately irrelevant to anything I have said in this thread. What I alluded to was that girls genitals are protected from mutilation by the laws of this nation, and many others, and boys genitals are not fully protected from mutilation by the laws of America (and many other countries). I believe this is a double-standard, and immoral. In this particular case females are more protected, and have this one particular right which males do not have.

edit: Gilgamesh is probably technically correct in saying that women do have more rights than men, and probably need more rights than men for reproductive differences in men and women. Doesn't matter if that's incorrect or not for the argument of my posts concerning circumcisions.

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03-03-2016, 10:13 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash
There is no medically sound reason to have a circumcision UNTIL there is already a problem. The fact people are still allowed to do this because their babies body "looks funny" is disgusting.
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03-03-2016, 10:15 PM
RE: Land's End Pulls Equal Rights Message Because... Religious Backlash


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