Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
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03-10-2017, 07:50 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 07:48 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-10-2017 07:33 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  The benefit of armor-piercing bullets in situations where nobody is wearing armor escapes me, but I can at least speculate on the usefulness of silencers: they help prevent damage to the ears of those shooting the guns. This is true in all scenarios. I don't care if you're hunting, target shooting, in a war, or "doin' a crime" -- guns are loud, and it makes sense to protect your hearing.

Earplugs could be a revolutionary solution.... Tongue

They are usually mandatory in shooting range.

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03-10-2017, 08:11 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 07:48 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-10-2017 07:33 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  The benefit of armor-piercing bullets in situations where nobody is wearing armor escapes me, but I can at least speculate on the usefulness of silencers: they help prevent damage to the ears of those shooting the guns. This is true in all scenarios. I don't care if you're hunting, target shooting, in a war, or "doin' a crime" -- guns are loud, and it makes sense to protect your hearing.

Earplugs could be a revolutionary solution.... Tongue

At the shooting range, sure, but in a hunting situation, you might want to retain your ability to hear other things.
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03-10-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(02-10-2017 08:29 PM)Banjo Wrote:  There's nothing to be done Jenny. America has a gun culture.

We can only look on.

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
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03-10-2017, 09:56 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2017 10:03 AM by onlinebiker.)
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(02-10-2017 08:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 08:26 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Doyle McManus of the Los Angeles Times says...

"In the aftermath of Sunday’s massacre in Las Vegas, the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, the House of Representatives will soon pass a bill that would make mass shootings easier...

The House is preparing to take up the Sportsmen Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act, which not only loosens restrictions on hunting and shooting on public lands, but also includes two provisions that don’t exactly seem essential to sport shooters. One would legalize the sale of armor-piercing bullets as long as the manufacturer declares that the ammunition is intended for sporting purposes. The other would loosen longstanding federal regulations on silencers....

There is little question that the bill, strongly supported by the National Rifle Association will pass in the Republican-majority House..."

—All reassuring news I'm sure. Confused

OLB, can you explain the need for armor-piercing bullets for hunting purposes? How many deer have you seen with flack jackets on them? What does "sporting purposes" mean? What "sporting event" includes shooting through metal? I know the Olympics has events that involve shooting but those are mostly target shooting? I'm genuinely curious about this.

While your at it, can you explain the need to use a silencer while hunting game like deer? Or are those only for handguns?

Why would a silencer benefit someone who claims to be using a gun only for protection purposes?

Yes I can explain the deal with " armor piercing" bullets.

It' s a bit of a red herring. Read this through and understand before you decide I am wrong.

Hunters like lead bullets (or copper jacketed lead) because of what is called bullet coefficient. Simply put - the more dense a bullet is in cross sectional density, the better it " flies" through the air - in that it's inertia being higher than a lighter bullet of the same size keeps the bullet from slowing down from air friction better than the lighter bullet.

So - the heavier the bullet ( for a given size) the better.

Additionally, upon impact - lead deforms quickly because of the softness of the lead ( compared to other materials) allowing the bullet to expend it's energy in the target, and forming a larger wound channel.

But, lead is also expensive.

Armor piercing ammo is a bit of a misnomer. What it is, is steel core in a copper jacket ( sometimes also some lead). While in military applications this has some value, the main reason it was produced that way was to make the ammo more cheaply.

There was a time back in the 80's that I bought large quantities of 7.62 x 39 "armor piercing" because 1. It was available, and 2. It was cheap. At the time it was cheaper than any other caliber. You could not reload ammo cheaper. The only thing cheaper was 22 long rifle.

When lead core ammo became available for this caliber, I found some goofballs that traded me lead core for my crap steel core ammo 2 to 1. That is they gave me 2000 bullets for ever 1000 I gave them. Just because it as " armor piercing".

Dumb.

And incidentally - you're better off getting shot with AP ammo. It leaves a smaller wound channel.


Also - anti hunting groups have been trying to do away with lead bullets for years. If they have their way EVERYTHING will be AP.

Silencers??

I'd love one. My tinnitus is bad enough. Silencers now are classified the same as long guns, in that you only need to file a 4473 and get a background check. ( unless you have a CCW).

I will get one for my .357 rifle, if the state legalizes hunting with one.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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03-10-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
I don't know of anyone else considered this - but in this particular case - it really could have been much, much worse.

Consider - if this guy was indeed the shooter (I didn't personally see the crime scene - so all I know is what was reported to and by the media) - but for sake of argument we agree he was...

This guy had the ability and means to kill far more people.

Remember 9-11??

This guy had a pilots license and two airplanes. Apparently he was suicidal as well.

As proven by 9-11 - he could have cause far more death and destruction.

....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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03-10-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 09:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 08:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  OLB, can you explain the need for armor-piercing bullets for hunting purposes? How many deer have you seen with flack jackets on them? What does "sporting purposes" mean? What "sporting event" includes shooting through metal? I know the Olympics has events that involve shooting but those are mostly target shooting? I'm genuinely curious about this.

While your at it, can you explain the need to use a silencer while hunting game like deer? Or are those only for handguns?

Why would a silencer benefit someone who claims to be using a gun only for protection purposes?

Yes I can explain the deal with " armor piercing" bullets.

It' s a bit of a red herring. Read this through and understand before you decide I am wrong.

Hunters like lead bullets (or copper jacketed lead) because of what is called bullet coefficient. Simply put - the more dense a bullet is in cross sectional density, the better it " flies" through the air - in that it's inertia being higher than a lighter bullet of the same size keeps the bullet from slowing down from air friction better than the lighter bullet.

So - the heavier the bullet ( for a given size) the better.

Additionally, upon impact - lead deforms quickly because of the softness of the lead ( compared to other materials) allowing the bullet to expend it's energy in the target, and forming a larger wound channel.

But, lead is also expensive.

Armor piercing ammo is a bit of a misnomer. What it is, is steel core in a copper jacket ( sometimes also some lead). While in military applications this has some value, the main reason it was produced that way was to make the ammo more cheaply.

There was a time back in the 80's that I bought large quantities of 7.62 x 39 "armor piercing" because 1. It was available, and 2. It was cheap. At the time it was cheaper than any other caliber. You could not reload ammo cheaper. The only thing cheaper was 22 long rifle.

When lead core ammo became available for this caliber, I found some goofballs that traded me lead core for my crap steel core ammo 2 to 1. That is they gave me 2000 bullets for ever 1000 I gave them. Just because it as " armor piercing".

Dumb.

And incidentally - you're better off getting shot with AP ammo. It leaves a smaller wound channel.


Also - anti hunting groups have been trying to do away with lead bullets for years. If they have their way EVERYTHING will be AP.

Silencers??

I'd love one. My tinnitus is bad enough. Silencers now are classified the same as long guns, in that you only need to file a 4473 and get a background check. ( unless you have a CCW).

I will get one for my .357 rifle, if the state legalizes hunting with one.

Thanks. I don't hunt, I don't really need to so I wasn't aware of the cheap advantages to A/P bullets.

That said, I think all guns should be louder not more quiet. I think any gun fired should allow anyone around them to know that a gun has been fired for miles around.

I still haven't heard from our friends in Vegas -- well Henderson (they like to attend concert festivals).

I'm afraid to look at the list of the dead.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-10-2017, 10:19 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 10:14 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(03-10-2017 09:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yes I can explain the deal with " armor piercing" bullets.

It' s a bit of a red herring. Read this through and understand before you decide I am wrong.

Hunters like lead bullets (or copper jacketed lead) because of what is called bullet coefficient. Simply put - the more dense a bullet is in cross sectional density, the better it " flies" through the air - in that it's inertia being higher than a lighter bullet of the same size keeps the bullet from slowing down from air friction better than the lighter bullet.

So - the heavier the bullet ( for a given size) the better.

Additionally, upon impact - lead deforms quickly because of the softness of the lead ( compared to other materials) allowing the bullet to expend it's energy in the target, and forming a larger wound channel.

But, lead is also expensive.

Armor piercing ammo is a bit of a misnomer. What it is, is steel core in a copper jacket ( sometimes also some lead). While in military applications this has some value, the main reason it was produced that way was to make the ammo more cheaply.

There was a time back in the 80's that I bought large quantities of 7.62 x 39 "armor piercing" because 1. It was available, and 2. It was cheap. At the time it was cheaper than any other caliber. You could not reload ammo cheaper. The only thing cheaper was 22 long rifle.

When lead core ammo became available for this caliber, I found some goofballs that traded me lead core for my crap steel core ammo 2 to 1. That is they gave me 2000 bullets for ever 1000 I gave them. Just because it as " armor piercing".

Dumb.

And incidentally - you're better off getting shot with AP ammo. It leaves a smaller wound channel.


Also - anti hunting groups have been trying to do away with lead bullets for years. If they have their way EVERYTHING will be AP.

Silencers??

I'd love one. My tinnitus is bad enough. Silencers now are classified the same as long guns, in that you only need to file a 4473 and get a background check. ( unless you have a CCW).

I will get one for my .357 rifle, if the state legalizes hunting with one.

Thanks. I don't hunt, I don't really need to so I wasn't aware of the cheap advantages to A/P bullets.

That said, I think all guns should be louder not more quiet. I think any gun fired should allow anyone around them to know that a gun has been fired for miles around.

I still haven't heard from our friends in Vegas -- well Henderson (they like to attend concert festivals).

I'm afraid to look at the list of the dead.
Hug
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03-10-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 10:14 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(03-10-2017 09:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yes I can explain the deal with " armor piercing" bullets.

It' s a bit of a red herring. Read this through and understand before you decide I am wrong.

Hunters like lead bullets (or copper jacketed lead) because of what is called bullet coefficient. Simply put - the more dense a bullet is in cross sectional density, the better it " flies" through the air - in that it's inertia being higher than a lighter bullet of the same size keeps the bullet from slowing down from air friction better than the lighter bullet.

So - the heavier the bullet ( for a given size) the better.

Additionally, upon impact - lead deforms quickly because of the softness of the lead ( compared to other materials) allowing the bullet to expend it's energy in the target, and forming a larger wound channel.

But, lead is also expensive.

Armor piercing ammo is a bit of a misnomer. What it is, is steel core in a copper jacket ( sometimes also some lead). While in military applications this has some value, the main reason it was produced that way was to make the ammo more cheaply.

There was a time back in the 80's that I bought large quantities of 7.62 x 39 "armor piercing" because 1. It was available, and 2. It was cheap. At the time it was cheaper than any other caliber. You could not reload ammo cheaper. The only thing cheaper was 22 long rifle.

When lead core ammo became available for this caliber, I found some goofballs that traded me lead core for my crap steel core ammo 2 to 1. That is they gave me 2000 bullets for ever 1000 I gave them. Just because it as " armor piercing".

Dumb.

And incidentally - you're better off getting shot with AP ammo. It leaves a smaller wound channel.


Also - anti hunting groups have been trying to do away with lead bullets for years. If they have their way EVERYTHING will be AP.

Silencers??

I'd love one. My tinnitus is bad enough. Silencers now are classified the same as long guns, in that you only need to file a 4473 and get a background check. ( unless you have a CCW).

I will get one for my .357 rifle, if the state legalizes hunting with one.

Thanks. I don't hunt, I don't really need to so I wasn't aware of the cheap advantages to A/P bullets.

That said, I think all guns should be louder not more quiet. I think any gun fired should allow anyone around them to know that a gun has been fired for miles around.

I still haven't heard from our friends in Vegas -- well Henderson (they like to attend concert festivals).

I'm afraid to look at the list of the dead.

By the same logic, cars shouldn't have mufflers so you can hear them coming too.....

Funny pasrt - if the government MANDATED silencers, there would be those that opposed it.... I can just see the T-shirt slogans -- " My second amendment rights are supported by the FIRST amendment". And " loud guns save lives!!" ( Harley logo optional)

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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03-10-2017, 10:37 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 12:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  If the mass shootings continue, getting worse as time goes by, eventually gun control will come. Question is how long before people decide the cost of not controlling guns is too high.

So... upwards of 500 victims? Surely this is the kind of thing you can't really pretend is a hoax? There'll be thousands of people directly connected to the victims, millions who're within 2 or 3 degrees of separation of them.

That's the amazing thing; if you're really convinced on it, ANYTHING can be a hoax!

Grieving families? Paid actors! Bodies on the floor? Fake! Testimonies? Also fake! The sheer improbability of getting hundreds of people to keep their mouths shut about something this huge? Ignored!

And if all else fails they can just insist that the shooting happened, but it was just planned out by the government to give reason to take guns away.

Remember, people believe that Earth is flat and that Finland doesn't exist. The sky's the limit when it comes to people believing things are hoaxes.


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Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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03-10-2017, 10:46 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(03-10-2017 10:37 AM)‘CleverUsername Wrote:  ...and that Finland doesn’t exist.

Gasp

That’s a new one for me

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