Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
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06-10-2017, 06:13 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:06 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 06:03 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  I can't speak to the manufacturer's original intent when Slide Fire first designed the thing, but it was submitted to the ATF as an aid for people that had problems pulling the trigger due to problems with their hand. It works as designed. You fire a gun equipped with one by pulling back on the front of the gun. The reason the AFT approved the design is it doesn't meet the legal definition of a machine gun. A machine gun fires multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. With bump stocks, the trigger gets pulled every time a round is fired. As far as cleverness goes, I've already heard someone say this week's ban is next weeks innovation.

I'm not thrilled with the wording I've seen in the proposed bills to ban bump stocks. They basically say anything that can increase the rate of fire. On the surface that doesn't sound bad. The problem is the definition is so loose it could be applied to a lot of aftermarket parts. Technically a lightweight bolt carrier group could increase the rate of fire because it allows for a quicker lock time, but the difference in lock time is measured in ten-thousandths of a second. A professional 3 gunner might save a couple hundredths of a second over a course of fire. For a competition that could make the difference in winning and finishing third. For a mass murderer not so much. Not to mention the reality is a lightweight bolt carrier group is the last thing you would want to run in an automatic weapon. It would get the shit beat out of it and could fail pretty quickly in that type of application.

Aftermarket triggers are another items that could be affected in these bills. If you have ever compared a USGI trigger with a good aftermarket trigger you would know why people like them. It doesn't have anything to with increasing your rate of fire though. But the way these bills are written such wording could be applied to an aftermarket trigger in a bolt action rifle.

The other problem a lot of gun people have with any proposed ban on bump stocks is Nancy Pelosi and people like her. That woman is her own worst enemy as far as gun legislation goes. She is already on record saying she hopes a bump stock ban is the start of a slippery slope that leads to much wider bans. Yes that both scares and pisses the modern sporting rifle community off. Many in that community wouldn't give a shit about banning bump stocks. But they don't want to give an inch to someone who's stated position is this is a first step towards banning anything she deems scary.

Thanks! That saved me a shitload of googling. Thumbsup

(06-10-2017 06:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 05:51 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Nah, that avoids the topic mate. I expect more from you.

Seriously. If he was really to be armed as a sniper firing into a crowd, what weapons available would be best?

Can one buy rocket launchers or bazookas over there? Is it limited to high velocity rapid firing arms or are explosives allowed?

If so, what would he have had to do to get a higher kill count?

For example. Could he have had a 50. caliber machine gun?

I'd really like to know.

These people are dead. Nothing we can do. So we may as well have fun.

I've said this before.

He wouldn't use guns.

If you could get above the crowd - Molotov cocktails or hand grenades would be much more deadly.

(06-10-2017 06:10 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 06:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I've said this before.

He wouldn't use guns.

If you could get above the crowd - Molotov cocktails or hand grenades would be much more deadly.

Nope. Dude was too far away even for Tom Brady's arm.

Are we all talking about the same girl???

If so, she gets around! Gasp

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06-10-2017, 06:13 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 05:55 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Are machine guns not allowed, and if so, why?

In the U.S., civilians can't own any automatic weapons unless they had one before the 1986 ban. I'm not sure what the logic is to draw the line at that point. After this latest mass killing, Congress has begun to consider a ban on bump stocks as well, since the Las Vegas shooter modified his rifles into automatics by adding bump stocks.
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06-10-2017, 06:18 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 05:55 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Are machine guns not allowed, and if so, why?

In the U.S., civilians can't own any automatic weapons unless they had one before the 1986 ban. I'm not sure what the logic is to draw the line at that point. After this latest mass killing, Congress has begun to consider a ban on bump stocks as well, since the Las Vegas shooter modified his rifles into automatics by adding bump stocks.

Cheers. What's the story with the armor piercing stuff?

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06-10-2017, 06:23 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:18 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 06:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  In the U.S., civilians can't own any automatic weapons unless they had one before the 1986 ban. I'm not sure what the logic is to draw the line at that point. After this latest mass killing, Congress has begun to consider a ban on bump stocks as well, since the Las Vegas shooter modified his rifles into automatics by adding bump stocks.

Cheers. What's the story with the armor piercing stuff?

I posted that for Moms....

Basically, it's just cheap steel core ammo, and generally less deadly to humans...


Only more deadly to iron plate.

Tongue

.......................................

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06-10-2017, 06:26 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:18 AM)Banjo Wrote:  What's the story with the armor piercing stuff?

According to Google: "There is a law against armor-piercing ammunition, but it is fairly limited in scope, primarily targeting handgun bullets designed to pierce body armor. The reason is that pretty much any hunting rifle will penetrate soft body armor."
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06-10-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  In the U.S., civilians can't own any automatic weapons unless they had one before the 1986 ban.

That's not quite right. A civilian can't have a machine gun manufactured after 86, but you can legally transfer a pre 86 machine gun if you jump through the hoops to do the paperwork and have the cash.

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06-10-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(05-10-2017 05:36 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 05:33 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  That's the worst system of quoting I'm seen on the 'net so far. I try to wait until someone else has posted before quoting a second post.

Better than filling half the thread with posts just to reply to a few people.

And when someone quotes a post with a bunch of quotes you get a Sargasso.
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06-10-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:32 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 06:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  In the U.S., civilians can't own any automatic weapons unless they had one before the 1986 ban.

That's not quite right. A civilian can't have a machine gun manufactured after 86, but you can legally transfer a pre 86 machine gun if you jump through the hoops to do the paperwork and have the cash.

Machine guns are legal in Nevada.
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06-10-2017, 06:42 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 06:03 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 02:52 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I'm looking at this bump-stock business and it appears to me that the way it works is you pull the trigger, you let go of the trigger but your fat ass finger is still there in the trigger guard, the recoil from the gun hits you in the shoulder causing your shoulder to recoil enough to cause your fat ass finger in the trigger guard to pull the trigger again. Rinse and repeat until you ain't got no bullets left or your finger is broke. ... Consider ... This is quite clever. I am not sure how you would go about legislating preventing that level of creativity and ingenuity. I'm not sure you want to. You'll just encourage it.

I can't speak to the manufacturer's original intent when Slide Fire first designed the thing, but it was submitted to the ATF as an aid for people that had problems pulling the trigger due to problems with their hand. It works as designed. You fire a gun equipped with one by pulling back on the front of the gun. The reason the AFT approved the design is it doesn't meet the legal definition of a machine gun. A machine gun fires multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. With bump stocks, the trigger gets pulled every time a round is fired. As far as cleverness goes, I've already heard someone say this week's ban is next weeks innovation.

I'm not thrilled with the wording I've seen in the proposed bills to ban bump stocks. They basically say anything that can increase the rate of fire. On the surface that doesn't sound bad. The problem is the definition is so loose it could be applied to a lot of aftermarket parts. Technically a lightweight bolt carrier group could increase the rate of fire because it allows for a quicker lock time, but the difference in lock time is measured in ten-thousandths of a second. A professional 3 gunner might save a couple hundredths of a second over a course of fire. For a competition that could make the difference in winning and finishing third. For a mass murderer not so much. Not to mention the reality is a lightweight bolt carrier group is the last thing you would want to run in an automatic weapon. It would get the shit beat out of it and could fail pretty quickly in that type of application.

Aftermarket triggers are another items that could be affected in these bills. If you have ever compared a USGI trigger with a good aftermarket trigger you would know why people like them. It doesn't have anything to with increasing your rate of fire though. But the way these bills are written such wording could be applied to an aftermarket trigger in a bolt action rifle.

The other problem a lot of gun people have with any proposed ban on bump stocks is Nancy Pelosi and people like her. That woman is her own worst enemy as far as gun legislation goes. She is already on record saying she hopes a bump stock ban is the start of a slippery slope that leads to much wider bans. Yes that both scares and pisses the modern sporting rifle community off. Many in that community wouldn't give a shit about banning bump stocks. But they don't want to give an inch to someone who's stated position is this is a first step towards banning anything she deems scary.

Why not simply outlaw anything with a rate of fire above a certain threshold? Go wild with your mods, but if you can fire more than 2 rounds per second (or whatever a reasonable threshold would be) with the final product, it's illegal.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-10-2017, 06:43 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
Wow.

You guys are screwed. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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