Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
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06-10-2017, 06:40 PM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 09:30 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 09:04 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  I understand what your are saying and basically agree, but what is reasonable? Jerry Miculek can fire 8 rounds out of a revolver in less than a second. That's a calculated rate of fire of more than 480 rounds per minute. An M-16 runs at 700 so Jerry can fire a revolver at 70% of the rate of fire of an fully automatic M-16.

But comparing an outlier like Jerry to the average Joe is silly. How long could Jerry keep that up anyway? I’d say his trigger finger would fatigue relatively soon.

morondog’s suggestion of limiting rate is not unreasonable, it is up to people like you who know guns inside and out to suggest and design how. Not only this, as I think about it, but it is precisely folks like you who understand the intricacies of guns who imo should be consulted to draft appropriate controls.

It seems that every time one of us who is knowledgeable brings up facts regarding design/capabilities of firearms in response to some restriction or other, we are accused of "deflecting". Consider

Quote:An analogy would be going to a locksmith and asking them to design a lock-proof safe. If anyone knows how it would be them, certainly not me or the average guy.

The chief designer of Mosler safes when asked by a customer to design a safe that no one could break into replied that if someone can open the safe, then someone else could open it. Big Grin

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-10-2017, 06:51 PM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 05:42 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 02:42 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  And that limit is?
The Founding Fathers managed to defeat the British Army and found a whole new country with a limit of one.

Just sayin'. Wink

The other guys, too, had a limit of 1. Just sayin'. Drinking Beverage

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07-10-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 02:52 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I'm looking at this bump-stock business and it appears to me that the way it works is you pull the trigger, you let go of the trigger but your fat ass finger is still there in the trigger guard, the recoil from the gun hits you in the shoulder causing your shoulder to recoil enough to cause your fat ass finger in the trigger guard to pull the trigger again. Rinse and repeat until you ain't got no bullets left or your finger is broke. ... Consider ... This is quite clever. I am not sure how you would go about legislating preventing that level of creativity and ingenuity. I'm not sure you want to. You'll just encourage it.

Haven't had time to keep up with the conversation, but to clarify and add to this, you don't really pull the trigger so much as lean your shoulder into it and let the recoil from the shot and the rebound from the stock do the rest. I had two of them before I moved to Canada. I considered them to be more of a toy, really. Not something I ever found a practical purpose for.

And as far as bans go, the same effect can be replicated using a technique as simple as looping your thumb through a belt loop or even a MOLLE loop and applying enough pressure as you lean into your trigger finger to create the same recoil / rebound effect as the bump fire stock, no fancy equipment needed.

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07-10-2017, 11:54 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(06-10-2017 05:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2017 03:23 PM)abaris Wrote:  The real irony lies in Americans perceiving this kind of thing as another day at the office. Nowhere else in the developed world, 30.000 violent deaths a year are counted as normal. Nowhere else in the developed world are there as many gun deaths. And nowhere else in the developed world, every fucknut can obtain an arsenal of guns as easily as in the USA.

Maybe there's a connection that the politicians and the second amendment warriors don't want to see. Britain saw it's last gun massacre 1996 at Dunblane and they faced the consequences. Now gun deaths a year are down to a hand full. If that.

You see what you just did there?

30,000 violent deaths. You're lumping suicides into that number. Japan has 30,000 suicides a year too. But zero guns. 98% of gun deaths are suicides and drug/gang violence. I read something the other day that there are more gang deaths in Chicago in a given year than 10-20 years of "active shooter" situations. If America could get rid of the perpetrators of drug/gang violence we would be no different than other countries.

98%? Can I see the stats for that?

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08-10-2017, 01:19 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured



Just so that nobody forgets, Republicans want to make it easier to purchase weapon suppressors. You know, those things you can attach to the end of firearms to help trap the gasses exploding out of the end of the barrel when it is fired, drastically lowering the weapon's decibel output. Now the justification is that poor ol' hunters all of a sudden now have hearing problems, that the suppressors will be used to help hunters protect their hearing. How they've managed up until this point, or the myriad of other possible solutions that don't make firearms more dangerous to people, is seemingly left on the table.


Now the irony here is that the voting on this legislation got tabled, on account of Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) getting shot in June (the Alexandria, Virginia shooting). The voting was to take place this week, go figure.


But let's not kid ourselves, the NRA is gushing all over this. Why? Because with a Republican controlled federal government, they can no longer use the boogeymen of "They're coming to take your guns!" as a marketing tactic to boost sales. Plus, look at the ownership trends. A ever smaller group of people are buying more of the guns, something like 5% of gun owners account for half of the guns owned. The NRA has saturated the market with guns, so now they're moving onto accessories.


Pure and simple, this is a bill Republicans want to pass because they're spineless bitches at the beck and call of the NRA, who in turn only care about the bottom line of the gun manufacturers who own them. Why? Because sensible regulations and accountability to protect public safety are getting in the way of their profit margins. They don't want people to submit to background checks, months of waiting, and being registered in a federal database, because that is what makes suppressors hard to get, and ultimately that's what makes them hard to sell.


Has anyone else actually seen footage of the Vegas shooting taking place? You can hear the machine gun fire (I know it was a legal bump-stock equipped AR-15, but try watching the shooting take place and tell me what the actual difference that distinction would make to the people being shot at), and people ducking for cover. When the fire stops, people get back up and start running for their lives. It already took the police almost 45 minutes to track down the shooter in this instance. The last thing anybody needs would be making it easier for psychopaths to get away with this shit.


This is your Republican controlled government at work folks. This is why elections matter.

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08-10-2017, 04:15 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
The reason that anti- gun types pee all over themselves when they think about silencers....

They saw a bad man in a movie screw on a silencer before he shot the good guy.

....

Never mind that quieting down gunfire could make being outside more pleasant for those not shooting. And yes - hunters such as myself - who already have poor hearing and tinnitus could benefit greatly.

No, that persistent fear of the mobster movie should be the basis of decisions.

And better stay out of the ocean. Jaws might get you.

Facepalm

.......................................

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08-10-2017, 04:36 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2017 05:01 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
(08-10-2017 04:15 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The reason that anti- gun types pee all over themselves when they think about silencers....

They saw a bad man in a movie screw on a silencer before he shot the good guy.

....

Never mind that quieting down gunfire could make being outside more pleasant for those not shooting. And yes - hunters such as myself - who already have poor hearing and tinnitus could benefit greatly.

No, that persistent fear of the mobster movie should be the basis of decisions.

And better stay out of the ocean. Jaws might get you.

Facepalm

Earplugs.

Earmuffs.

Failing that, accept it as the ancillary cost of your freedom to bear arms.

Or, you know, don't shoot. That is always an option too. Owning a gun doesn't mean you're obliged to fire it.

Do you know who else suffers from tinnitus from partaking in their hobby? Fans of heavy metal concerts.

But let's not forget that bump-stocks were supposed to be for helping frail people who otherwise couldn't 'comfortably' pull the trigger, to enjoy their toys too. Now we're being told that suppressors are supposed to be to help the ears of the poor hunters, who already have plenty of other options at hand.


I give zero fucks about the 'plight' of the American Recreational Hunter.


Also, I'm not inordinately afraid of the things, you jackass. You currently have to jump through a ton of hoops to get them, and for good reasons. The bill wants to explicitly remove all of those safety measures and restrictions. It also wants to remove other hunting restrictions, like hunting certain game over farmland, removing protected status from some animals in the Great Lakes region, and rescinding the ban on lead weights/lures and shot on federal land. So it's a whole lot of deregulation fuckery.


Seriously, watch a video of the Vegas attack again. Then mute it, watch it a second time. Imagine the scene with all the screaming in terror, but no gunfire. Imagine being there, hearing people screaming but not knowing why. Maybe you'd catch the occasional sound of impact, or the sound of the rounds breaking the sound barrier as they flew by. Maybe you'd be able to figure out you were being shot at, but you're not going to know from where.


But nope, that's just 'Jaws'. Let's ignore that such a thing literally just happened, and we have no reason to expect it won't happen again.


But why do I even bother with you? Earplugs are too much of a hassle, so let's open the floodgates to weapon suppressors instead. The inconvenience of hunters (and the profit margins of the Military Industrial Complex) are worth more to you than public safety and decent common sense.

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08-10-2017, 05:29 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
Wow. This shit continues...

Okay. Here's the thing.

Many Americans are very very very stupid.

This is not their fault. They have been denied education. Seriously, they still use inches and miles!

America in general, as far as I can tell, is 50 years behind the rest of the planet. At least. Forget the moon walk. They have.

America does well in military ordinance. They make great weapons to kill people.

Get it?

So, a society built on killing other people is obsessed with guns...

C'mon, think. Are they going to love guns?

Of course!

There'll be another, larger, mass shooting soon enough.

These fuckwits aren't going to stop.

If they want to kill each other, let them. Human life is obviously not highly valued over there. Fuck, look at their pathetic health system. I heard it once described as "inhuman".

Are these inhuman creatures about to control gun use?

Dream on.

The world has other countries. Just because many Americans see themselves at the center of the universe does not make it so.

I prefer French literature. American literature, aside from Kerouac, sucks.

They can kill themselves all they want. It makes good television. Their president is a TV star.

What do you expect?

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08-10-2017, 06:00 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
America is by no means a basket case. It does have massive challenges though. If it fails, it will be a failure of leadership, that is the most tragic part. Every country suffers from this, a lack of credible leaders who actually have a clue and the political will to implement necessary reforms.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-10-2017, 06:03 AM
RE: Las Vegas Shooting: 50 dead, 200 injured
Ah, the old "This music is better than that music" line.

I never bought into that.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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