Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-12-2012, 02:53 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
I heard an interesting lecture on this topic a couple summers ago at Tubingen. I was still learning German, and he lectured in German, so I missed some of it. The flood story, as it's presented in Genesis, is pretty typical of how the authors/ editors of Genesis used the prevailing myths in the Near East to make their own points. Since we know geology has never ever provided any evidence that there ever was a world-wide flood, of course it's mythology. We also know from DNA evidence, there is no evidence that Homo sapiens "restarted" or experienced a "genetic bottleneck" that late or with DNA origins in the Near East. So there is absolute incontrovertible proof it could not have happened, (just in case there are any literalists lurking about). So Torah scholars know that there was a syncretistic use of myth from surrounding cultures and this is a good example, but the myths are changed to suit the Torah authors agenda.

First it's interesting to look at the topography of Palestine, (or the ancient Levant). A cursory look immediately argues for a Babylonian/Sumerian location. The Levant is hilly, and dry. Archaeologists know for a fact, that in excavating ancient Jericho, (which is in the valley to the North of the Dead Sea), that for NINE THOUSAND years, there was continuous occupation, and NO accumulation of clay or other deposits which would lead anyone to think a catastrophic flood occurred in that region. Secondly, the Hebrews were, in general NOT A SEAFARING people. They had no knowledge of shipbuilding. Therefore the construction of an arc would not have originated in Hebrew culture. Lastly, Mount Ararat is in Southern Turkey, (near Lake Van), and IS bounded by two rivers, so a Babylonian location and origin would be reasonable.

The first known (other) Mesopotamian flood story came from a Babylonian priest of Marduk, named Berossus, and he wrote it in 275 BCE. It resembles the Noah myth a lot, but no one realized how much so, until some tablets of with it were found in the Ashrurbanipal discoveries. The hero of this story's name is the Greek form of the name of the Sumerian hero from Gilgamesh. There is also another older Babylonian form of a flood myth called the Epic of Atrahasis, in which he was also the only survivor of a flood inflicted by the gods as punishment for sins. Then of course there is the Epic of Gilgamesh, which the Bible story resembles to a remarkable degree. So no scholar really argues any more that it did not have a Mesopotamian origin. In Genesis 7:11, it says "All the fountains of the great deep burst apart, and the flood-gates of the sky broke open". Therefore many Jewish Torah scholars think the present for of the Jewish epic is rally not the original form, and an earlier version may have been used, and what was an epic poem, may have been changed to a prose form. There is also some unique vocabulary in the story, used nowhere else in the Bible, thus they obviously got it from somewhere else, ((for example the word for "pitch" ("gofer" or "kofer")), among others. The hero in Berossus is the tenth generation, just as Noah was from Adam, so the Sumerians also thought of the myth as a part of the mythical history of human kind.

There is a good chapter on the subject in Nahum M. Sarna's book, "Understanding Genesis". He's a very devout Jew, but nothing escapes his historical scrutiny, as to sources, and origins.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
12-12-2012, 04:52 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 02:07 AM)anotherother Wrote:  Yep. When it comes to epic death, genocide and plagues you can't beat Yahweh.


The US has been trying their damnedest to make up for that, though. And I'd say with burning Tokyo, Dresden, and Hamburg, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and poisoning Vietnam with Agent Orange they have nearly got him beat.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 05:00 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
Which Ark???

I can think of four different religions off the top of my head that had this story.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 05:04 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 05:00 AM)bemore Wrote:  Which Ark???

I can think of four different religions off the top of my head that had this story.


Duh!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 05:25 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 07:21 AM by bemore.)
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 05:04 AM)Janus Wrote:  Duh!
I realise that this story in particular is about Janus and his Ark.... my last statement was just to remind that this "story" about floods is not actually new, nor is it limited to just Christianity.

So duh Big Grin

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 05:56 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 05:25 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(12-12-2012 05:04 AM)Janus Wrote:  Duh!
I realise that this story in particular is about Moses and his Ark


Apparently you don't.
This story was about Noah and his ark...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 05:57 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
Not really pertaining to the discussion, but speaking of floods, I've been quite fascinated with the Zanclean flood, ever since I first read about it (though I am easily fascinated with waves and huge movements of water in general). Can you imagine what it must have looked like...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vera's post
12-12-2012, 06:04 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 06:09 AM by Janus.)
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 05:57 AM)Vera Wrote:  Not really pertaining to the discussion, but speaking of floods, I've been quite fascinated with the Zanclean flood, ever since I first read about it (though I am easily fascinated with waves and huge movements of water in general). Can you imagine what it must have looked like...


The Med was flooded catastrophically more than once. Of course there weren't any people around to witness the Zanclean flood. But the Med basin 'dried up' again over millions of years, and there were people around when it flooded again, 12 KYA. And also when the Black Sea basin was flooded in 5,6 KYA.
Those stories were possibly largely responsible for the stories of Noah's flood and ark.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 07:21 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 05:56 AM)Janus Wrote:  
(12-12-2012 05:25 AM)bemore Wrote:  I realise that this story in particular is about Moses and his Ark


Apparently you don't.
This story was about Noah and his ark...
Fixed it Cool

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 07:30 AM
RE: Latest Noah's Ark research - Flood did happen
(12-12-2012 05:57 AM)Vera Wrote:  Not really pertaining to the discussion, but speaking of floods, I've been quite fascinated with the Zanclean flood, ever since I first read about it (though I am easily fascinated with waves and huge movements of water in general). Can you imagine what it must have looked like...
Fun fact; this as the 10,000th post in the science sub-forum.

as you were tta.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
[Image: 10h27hu.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: