Law and Disorder?
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07-05-2016, 09:26 AM
Law and Disorder?
I was thinking a few days ago about a question that I wanted to pose somewhere that it would get noticed. I haven't quite got it nailed down in wording but I'm going to give it a shot anyhow so here goes....

Does the law create criminals or do criminals create themselves by disobeying the law. Now before you say the answer is obvious hear me out. Hypothetically if someone has performed a certain action (harmless overall but may be considered immoral by the majority) and the local government creates a law specifically prohibiting that one thing... is that person then a criminal and get the label if they continue doing what they've always done in the privacy of their own domain? Or were they victims of a law forced upon them by a majority that dislikes what they're doing.. I'm sorry I don't have specific examples of what I mean but I suppose through discussion this could be examined further.
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07-05-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: Law and Disorder?
(07-05-2016 09:26 AM)WadeW.Wilson Wrote:  ...
is that person then a criminal and get the label if they continue doing what they've always done in the privacy of their own domain? Or were they victims of a law forced upon them by a majority that dislikes what they're doing..
...

Both.

[Image: heres-what-the-why-dont-we-have-both-gir...1_wide.jpg]

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07-05-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Law and Disorder?
Kind of like how church creates "deviants".
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07-05-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: Law and Disorder?
(07-05-2016 09:45 AM)WadeW.Wilson Wrote:  Kind of like how church creates "deviants".

Norms create deviants.

Churches create sinners.

Dodgy

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07-05-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: Law and Disorder?
(07-05-2016 09:49 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 09:45 AM)WadeW.Wilson Wrote:  Kind of like how church creates "deviants".

Norms create deviants.

Churches create sinners.

Dodgy

Thank you for the correction.
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07-05-2016, 12:16 PM
RE: Law and Disorder?
Without law to break there would be no criminals Wink

To be more serious - law can aggravate the issue, look on the war on drugs or laws against homosexuality in some countries. You do nothing wrong but you're still punished. But I wouldn't call it creating criminals, more like a creating victims.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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07-05-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: Law and Disorder?
There used to be term to describe people whose behavior became criminal while before it was not or who were living outside of the society. We called them «outlaws». They were criminals in the sense they were not obeying enforced rules and norms, but they weren't criminals in the sense they were actually defying it or hurting people. Robin Hood was an outlaw because he lived in the middle of the woods with a bunch of marginals where the common law of their land didn't applied, but they were also criminals because they were thieves and murderers.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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08-05-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Law and Disorder?
My take..... If an individual breaches any of the laws of the land, then they're by definition committing a criminal act. This defines them as a criminal.

It's neither here nor there as to what that person's interpretation of the law is, or whether he commits the act in private within the bounds of his own property.

Of course, this simple interpretation ignores the various degrees of criminal acts, for example summary or indictable offences, felonies, violations, infringements, misdemeanors, or infractions etc. (And I'm talking specifically about developed Western countries here.)

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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08-05-2016, 06:41 AM
RE: Law and Disorder?
I urge everyone to visit a country with a collapsed government once in their I lives to see how much better it is without laws. If you make it back, it will be an interesting experience to reflect on.

'Murican Canadian
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10-05-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Law and Disorder?
“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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