Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
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28-09-2011, 11:46 AM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
I see a disturbing trend of elitist like comments. Fuck that. Fuck everybody who thinks the way they describe themselves is better than anyone elses way. Jerks.

If you don't quite understand the way someone is explaining things then ask, don't attempt to belittle, it just makes you look prickish. Stop picking on Ghost. Hes right. If you want to try and say that someone who calls themselves strictly an agnostic is being a pansy, too afraid to pick sides, then you are uninformed.

I used to only call myself an agnostic, but have never been a pansy in any way, I have for most of my life been rather strong in the opinion that religion itself is awful, and have had no lock on my tongue. I now call myself an agnostic atheist. Agnosticism is as down to the facts as you can get. Since there is essentially no way of proving whether or not a god exists, I can't say for fact that there isn't one. Atheism is where my tendency to believe lies. I look at everything the world has to offer, and I pick a side. Whether I will ever be able to prove there is a god or not, Based upon all the evidence the world has to offer me I can confidently say that I don't believe god to be real. I don't know if he's not, but I'm pretty sure, just as we're all pretty sure unicorns are made up, that's how I feel about god.

It took me a while to actually feel comfortable saying that in all probability there isn't any kind of godlike creature roaming around making shit, and part of being comfortable with this was me realizing that it was ok to believe it without definitive proof. There was enough for me to feel like it was the right direction to go. Some people don't quite feel that way. I think that as long as they aren't out forcing others to think like them, and they aren't killing in the name of an invisible sky man, we should just be ok with it. Forcing someone to see your definition of a word (that you may not understand yourself though you may think so) as the true definition is just about as bad as coming to my house at three in the afternoon asking me if I've heard the good word.

a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

ag·nos·tic [ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.
2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
3.
a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality.

Also I think this video does a fairly good job describing the whole shebang. It's a little longer than necessary and the guy in the v neck has a hard time finishing his sentences. But watch it all the way through.





Sorry for the rant. Well not really.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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28-09-2011, 12:04 PM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
I still don't fully understand why it's important to choose the correct - accurate and/ or courageous - label. Why should anyone care what somebody calls himself? For most of my life, this didn't matter. Why now?

My guess is, either war mentality: If you're not with us, you're against us,
or a social confrontation issue: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Sorry about the slogans - it's become that kind of world.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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28-09-2011, 01:53 PM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
To agnostics I say the same thing I say to religious moderates: I'm very happy that you don't try to impose your morality on other people and that, for the most part, you value evidence over dogma. I'll take you over a religious zealot any day. That said, let's not pretend you treat the god proposition the same way you treat the Santa Claus one.
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28-09-2011, 05:26 PM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
Of course not. Santa Claus is provably false. Or is he?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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29-09-2011, 07:49 AM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
Hey, Vipa.

Word. And welcome to the forum.

Hey, Ludacris.

Word up.

Hey, Peterkin.

Good point.

Hey, Tae.

I do treat them the same. I've already spoken at length about that with you elsewhere, so I have no interest in rehashing it here, but I just wanted to point it out for the record.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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29-09-2011, 11:05 AM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
(28-09-2011 05:26 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Of course not. Santa Claus is provably false. Or is he?

I just pictured Dr. Evil with his pinky to his mouth =)

Who knows if Santa Claus exists or not. After all, you can't really say you don't believe in Santa Claus because you could use the same arguments people use for god.

You could say he might exist in another universe/dimension, that he manifests himself in a way that is unknown to us, you could also define Santa Claus in a way that makes him untestable, that by some definitions we can't really know if he exists or not, etc.

Then again you could also say it's clearly mythology and you don't believe it unless someone comes up with a shred of proof.
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29-09-2011, 01:25 PM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
Ghost, I wasn't going to say anything, but what the hell... Last time I showed how you made a special plead for god. I didn't do it by paraphrasing you but by quoting your own words. Please feel free to respond to that thread if you think that I somehow misrepresented any of the statements you made.
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29-09-2011, 02:45 PM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
Hey, Tae.

I'm not doing this with you. You said your piece, I said mine. Let's just leave it at that.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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29-09-2011, 02:52 PM
RE: Law of excluded middle - Agnostics
That's okay Ghost.

/peace
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