Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
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24-02-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 12:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, if I give you a polite smile and you kiss me or grab my pussy, I'm going to experience that as assault for sure.

Is that what Krauss is being accused of?
If a guy continues to verbalize his interest, after the lady has told him to shove off, I could see that as harassment. But the initial, purely verbal, "wanna fuck" or "nice tits", is assault? Or is it just a terrible attempt?

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24-02-2018, 12:26 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 11:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 11:17 AM)Free Wrote:  I just read the whole thing.

Firstly, not one accusation suggests anything illegal. What I see there is a number of women from his past suddenly reinterpreting his rejected advances in the past as if it was some kind of sexual assault.

So we need to ask, "Why?"

My feelings about this #MeToo movement are mixed. Sure, in most cases we see things that are clearly some form of sexual assault. But when I see scenarios where a guy hit on a girl, and was rejected 12 years ago, and then suddenly that incident needs to be reinterpreted as a #MeToo moment, then it does a disservice to what the #MeToo movement should be all about.

I am not saying that some of the things that Lawrence Kruass purportedly did or said do not have some element of misogyny, but I'm really saying is that if we are now taking present-day standards and imposing them in the past, then we may as well put every horny guy who hit on a girl from the past in jail right now, throw away the key, sell all their possessions, and never speak of them again.

It's like, "David told me in 1978 that I had nice tits and a nice ass, so now I am going to out him on social media as a misogynist."

Facepalm

And to me, that's exactly where the #MeToo movement is going off the fucking rails.

There is a lack of definitions.

What is "hitting on someone"?
What is sexual assault?

These things need to be defined properly for all to see.
I think the law defines sexual assault pretty damn well. The problem isn't a lack of definitions, the problem is a lot of people want to feel special, take part and share with a movement. It's like when that faith healer dude knocks everyone down with his coat...Everyone falls not because of anything he did...everyone falls just to be part of the experience.

It's just another form of group think...and a new club that everyone wants to be part of. What's fucked up about this club is that all you have to do join is say something happened. Social media does the rest.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-02-2018, 12:29 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 12:16 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 12:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, if I give you a polite smile and you kiss me or grab my pussy, I'm going to experience that as assault for sure.

Is that what Krauss is being accused of?
If a guy continues to verbalize his interest, after the lady has told him to shove off, I could see that as harassment. But the initial, purely verbal, "wanna fuck" or "nice tits", is assault? Or is it just a terrible attempt?

From the article, he's being accused of asking a woman to dinner, but doing a pre dinner meet in his hotel room, and when she suggested that they leave for dinner, pushing her down on a bed and fumbling at her crotch as his first move. It seems as though he stopped before he raped her, though.

And it does seem that he's unofficially been steered away from some places because he's a jerk. Nothing that seems to rise to charges, other than that he's a hypocrite because he's said people shouldn't treat one another this way. I don't follow him or know much about him, so I don't know what his positions are, but that's the article's take.

(Wanna fuck or nice tits, while not assault, have never gotten any guy to any base with me.)
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24-02-2018, 12:31 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
Don't know about Krause, hope it's not true. But regarding Buzzfeed, have avoided it for a couple years now. It used to be on my list of daily check-in sites and one day it hit me: What the fuck am I doing wasting my time clicking on this stuff? Not that, in moderation, there's anything wrong with wasting time, but surely there are better ways. Being here for example. Shy

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24-02-2018, 12:36 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 12:16 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 12:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, if I give you a polite smile and you kiss me or grab my pussy, I'm going to experience that as assault for sure.

Is that what Krauss is being accused of?
If a guy continues to verbalize his interest, after the lady has told him to shove off, I could see that as harassment. But the initial, purely verbal, "wanna fuck" or "nice tits", is assault? Or is it just a terrible attempt?

Verbal is just insulting, not assaulting. If it occurs repeatedly, it's harassment. If you can't keep your hands to yourself, it's assault.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-02-2018, 12:38 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 12:29 PM)julep Wrote:  From the article, he's being accused of asking a woman to dinner, but doing a pre dinner meet in his hotel room, and when she suggested that they leave for dinner, pushing her down on a bed and fumbling at her crotch as his first move.

You'd think, as a scientist, he wouldn't want to proceed without knowing for a FACT that he was welcome there. Facepalm

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24-02-2018, 01:36 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
The title of the fist article is typical of mass media news outlets. It's a huge clickbait. Can misogyny bring down the credibility of the atheist movement? Absolutly not. Atheism isn't about women's rights in the first place. At worst, it could make some speakers less popular, but let's face it Hitchen was largely an alcoholic and supposedly a pretty dickish guy in private and he is still very popular. Misogyny is pervasive to various extend in any large group dominated by men. It used to be a foundation of our culture and societies and now, while weakenned tremendously, it's still a rather common trait, especially amongst older men (it's also quite common amongst teenagers and tweens due to their general lack of experience with women). The good thing is that the gender gap within the athiest community is closing slowly but surely.

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24-02-2018, 01:53 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
Didn't Dawkins find himself in hot water years ago when he said that asking someone to dinner or drinks wasn't the same as assault and rape?

I seem to recall PZ Meyers going on and on (and on) about some "poor" woman at an atheist convention who was asked for a drink in an elevator late at night. The whole thing blew up. People (including PZ -- which is why I stopped following him) likened it to assault.

I believe the woman involved said later that she wished she'd said nothing about it. I don't know if she meant it to become a "thing" or not. I seem to recall her original statement was more about good manners than anything equating to assault.

I think this maybe why (I really hadn't thought much about it) I take #MeToo with such a grain of salt. Some have done serious things. I get that and agree some of them should be ruined. I don't believe every single story just because someone on social media bothered to write it.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-02-2018, 03:12 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2018 03:15 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 11:17 AM)Free Wrote:  It's like, "David told me in 1978 that I had nice tits and a nice ass, so now I am going to out him on social media as a misogynist."

Facepalm

And to me, that's exactly where the #MeToo movement is going off the fucking rails.

Well, if you think casual sexism is acceptable, have at it. 1978 or not, that sounds like really fucking gross objectification, and more power to the people pushing back against the pervasiveness of such casual sexism and moving it into the realm of the unacceptable.

If it was socially acceptable for someone to walk up to me and casually say 'nice cock', I'd feel uncomfortable as all hell. If that was acceptable behavior from my coworkers, you bet your ass it would make work feel hostile and unwelcoming.

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24-02-2018, 03:21 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 03:12 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 11:17 AM)Free Wrote:  It's like, "David told me in 1978 that I had nice tits and a nice ass, so now I am going to out him on social media as a misogynist."

Facepalm

And to me, that's exactly where the #MeToo movement is going off the fucking rails.

Well, if you think casual sexism is acceptable, have at it. 1978 or not, that sounds like really fucking gross objectification, and more power to the people pushing back against the pervasiveness of such casual sexism and moving it into the realm of the unacceptable.

If it was socially acceptable for someone to walk up to me and casually say 'nice cock', I'd feel uncomfortable as all hell. If that was acceptable behavior from my coworkers, you bet your ass it would make work feel hostile and unwelcoming.

You're missing the point.

How far back do you wanna go? Should we look for every single sexist remark in history and hang every man who ever said anything? Should we dredge up something from 50 years ago, and while an old man is now dying on his death bed, completely destroy what's left of him because he pinched somebodies ass back in 1968?

So if i said someone had a nice ass 10 years ago, I should have my life completely destroyed over it today?

Fuck off. You will never be right about it.

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