Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
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24-02-2018, 04:20 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:19 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:09 PM)Free Wrote:  If it was important enough to them back then, they still should have said something. That was their right back then. They could have done something about it when they had the chance, if it was serious enough to warrant action.

They have had 10 years to say something, but now they get the mob mentality and decide that they can do it now? Why not ... last March? 2 years ago? 5 years ago?

That. And now I am too pissed off to continue this conversation. You hit a sore spot here.

Read the rest. Cherry picking is forbidden.

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24-02-2018, 04:32 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2018 04:37 PM by Free.)
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  You have apparently no idea what this sort of shit feels like, and how society used to look at you for it.

Yes I do. Raped at 15. Outted him on #MeToo 2 months ago.

But I am not talking about rape, nor am I talking about any very serious sexual harassment. I am talking about simple comments such as "Nice ass" being reinterpreted years later as being a #MeToo moment. They wreck what this movement is supposed to be all about.

I have seen this happen.

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24-02-2018, 04:36 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  You have apparently no idea what this sort of shit feels like, and how society used to look at you for it.

Yes I do. Raped at 15. Outted him on #MeToo 2 months ago.

But i am not talking about rape, nor am i talking about any very serious sexual harassment. I am talking about simple comments such as "Nice ass" being reinterpreted years later as being a #MeToo moment. They wreck what this movement is supposed to be all about.

I have seen this happen.

Verbal one time = insult
Verbal repeatedly = harassment
Hands on = assault

Those are the definitions.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-02-2018, 04:40 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:36 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:32 PM)Free Wrote:  Yes I do. Raped at 15. Outted him on #MeToo 2 months ago.

But i am not talking about rape, nor am i talking about any very serious sexual harassment. I am talking about simple comments such as "Nice ass" being reinterpreted years later as being a #MeToo moment. They wreck what this movement is supposed to be all about.

I have seen this happen.

Verbal one time = insult
Verbal repeatedly = harassment
Hands on = assault

Those are the definitions.

And those are good definitions. And if someone in the past did it (verbally) constantly, and you can gather together at least one other person who also experienced it, then he should be dealt with. I have no problem with outting people for actual crimes that have actual evidence. My problem is that innocent people are getting outted unjustifiably only because someone wants attention, and that hurts the movement. You can now find innumerable articles about this online, and now we can't tell who's telling the truth any more.

That's what it has come to.

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24-02-2018, 04:46 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:40 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:36 PM)Dom Wrote:  Verbal one time = insult
Verbal repeatedly = harassment
Hands on = assault

Those are the definitions.

And those are good definitions. And if someone in the past did it (verbally) constantly, and you can gather together at least one other person who also experienced it, then he should be dealt with. I have no problem with outting people for actual crimes that have actual evidence. My problem is that innocent people are getting outted unjustifiably only because someone wants attention, and that hurts the movement. You can now find innumerable articles about this online, and now we can't tell who's telling the truth any more.

That's what it has come to.

I'd be shit outta luck trying to prove what happened 30 years ago.

And assault doesn't usually happen with witnesses milling about.

Harassment - sometimes there are witnesses, sometimes not.

Yes, there are probably people taking advantage. But there are many, many more who are finally getting to at least say something. Holding this shit in a life time is horrible, if you don't vent, you can't let it go.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-02-2018, 04:50 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:09 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 03:57 PM)julep Wrote:  It wasn't no big deal 10 years ago, it was just something people without power were expected to put up with. Complain and you lose your job or things get worse, not better.

I can understand those kinds of situations, and have no problem with that except for one thing.

If it was important enough to them back then, they still should have said something. That was their right back then. They could have done something about it when they had the chance, if it was serious enough to warrant action.

They have had 10 years to say something, but now they get the mob mentality and decide that they can do it now? Why not ... last March? 2 years ago? 5 years ago?

The only thing that is different now is that social media enables people to be anonymous, and behind that anonymity they can "out" people from their past by bringing up their real names and other personal info. But because they are anonymous, they have very little to fear in terms of retribution.

I have watched this very thing happen to people I know. They get fired from their jobs on the rumor, destroying their lives because someone anonymous tweeted something that can not even be verified or falsified.

And that is exactly why I see this the way I do. They do this shit in the name of a cause that was not intended for that kind of crap. Now it makes the #MeToo movement look like you can't trust even the real accusations because of the ones that are either false, or made by someone trying to make mountains out of molehills just to get attention.

The women who did speak out about this stuff commonly had the following happen to them, if they were "lucky" enough to be believed: they were required to sign NDAs, given a settlement, and required to seek employment elsewhere, while simultaneously being blackballed, so they lost their careers. Guess what happened to the harassers? If you said "continued on their upward career trajectory," you'd be absolutely correct. If the women weren't lucky enough to be believed, they got fired, or demoted, or were passed over for promotion because they'd rocked the boat.

As to your acquaintances who got fired from their jobs based on a rumor, I'm guessing some of them ....might have been guilty of these accusations, because firing people based on a couple of anonymous Tweets is not how HR departments work.

You really just don't have a clue, and you don't clearly want to have one, so I'm not going to get into it with you.
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24-02-2018, 04:56 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2018 05:06 PM by Free.)
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:46 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:40 PM)Free Wrote:  And those are good definitions. And if someone in the past did it (verbally) constantly, and you can gather together at least one other person who also experienced it, then he should be dealt with. I have no problem with outting people for actual crimes that have actual evidence. My problem is that innocent people are getting outted unjustifiably only because someone wants attention, and that hurts the movement. You can now find innumerable articles about this online, and now we can't tell who's telling the truth any more.

That's what it has come to.

I'd be shit outta luck trying to prove what happened 30 years ago.

And assault doesn't usually happen with witnesses milling about.

Harassment - sometimes there are witnesses, sometimes not.

Yes, there are probably people taking advantage. But there are many, many more who are finally getting to at least say something. Holding this shit in a life time is horrible, if you don't vent, you can't let it go.

My incident happened 41 years ago. Walking to school, and was offered a ride, but never took me to the school.

I think I was more lucky than you. Aside from having a fear and distrust for gays for a couple years, I adopted an attitude that, despite what happened I can't change the past but I can, and will, shape my future. I didn't tell anyone because it was embarrassing back in the 1970s to say I got raped by a 30+ year old gay guy. I would have been teased and bullied into oblivion. I am straight.

So I simply put it behind me and went on with my life. But I never forgot about it, I simply refused to allow it to have a negative affect on the rest of my life.

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24-02-2018, 04:59 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:50 PM)julep Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:09 PM)Free Wrote:  I can understand those kinds of situations, and have no problem with that except for one thing.

If it was important enough to them back then, they still should have said something. That was their right back then. They could have done something about it when they had the chance, if it was serious enough to warrant action.

They have had 10 years to say something, but now they get the mob mentality and decide that they can do it now? Why not ... last March? 2 years ago? 5 years ago?

The only thing that is different now is that social media enables people to be anonymous, and behind that anonymity they can "out" people from their past by bringing up their real names and other personal info. But because they are anonymous, they have very little to fear in terms of retribution.

I have watched this very thing happen to people I know. They get fired from their jobs on the rumor, destroying their lives because someone anonymous tweeted something that can not even be verified or falsified.

And that is exactly why I see this the way I do. They do this shit in the name of a cause that was not intended for that kind of crap. Now it makes the #MeToo movement look like you can't trust even the real accusations because of the ones that are either false, or made by someone trying to make mountains out of molehills just to get attention.

The women who did speak out about this stuff commonly had the following happen to them, if they were "lucky" enough to be believed: they were required to sign NDAs, given a settlement, and required to seek employment elsewhere, while simultaneously being blackballed, so they lost their careers. Guess what happened to the harassers? If you said "continued on their upward career trajectory," you'd be absolutely correct. If the women weren't lucky enough to be believed, they got fired, or demoted, or were passed over for promotion because they'd rocked the boat.

As to your acquaintances who got fired from their jobs based on a rumor, I'm guessing some of them ....might have been guilty of these accusations, because firing people based on a couple of anonymous Tweets is not how HR departments work.

You really just don't have a clue, and you don't clearly want to have one, so I'm not going to get into it with you.

You really have no idea what i am talking about, do you?

Facepalm

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24-02-2018, 05:09 PM
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:59 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:50 PM)julep Wrote:  The women who did speak out about this stuff commonly had the following happen to them, if they were "lucky" enough to be believed: they were required to sign NDAs, given a settlement, and required to seek employment elsewhere, while simultaneously being blackballed, so they lost their careers. Guess what happened to the harassers? If you said "continued on their upward career trajectory," you'd be absolutely correct. If the women weren't lucky enough to be believed, they got fired, or demoted, or were passed over for promotion because they'd rocked the boat.

As to your acquaintances who got fired from their jobs based on a rumor, I'm guessing some of them ....might have been guilty of these accusations, because firing people based on a couple of anonymous Tweets is not how HR departments work.

You really just don't have a clue, and you don't clearly want to have one, so I'm not going to get into it with you.

You really have no idea what i am talking about, do you?

Facepalm

That would make two of us.

Maybe you could give an example of someone that you know for certain lost a job on the basis of anonymous tweets that simply allege s/he told a woman in the early 2000s that she had a nice ass.
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24-02-2018, 05:15 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2018 05:22 PM by Thena323.)
RE: Lawrence Krauss accused of Sexual Misconduct
(24-02-2018 04:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-02-2018 04:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  You have apparently no idea what this sort of shit feels like, and how society used to look at you for it.

Yes I do. Raped at 15. Outted him on #MeToo 2 months ago.

But I am not talking about rape, nor am I talking about any very serious sexual harassment. I am talking about simple comments such as "Nice ass" being reinterpreted years later as being a #MeToo moment. They wreck what this movement is supposed to be all about.

I have seen this happen.

Wow. You pretty much blasted folks for not coming forward at the time of alleged occurrences, yet chose to out your attacker on #MeToo only 2 months ago? Regarding an event that took place 40 years earlier?

If you can understand your motivations for doing that, then surely you can muster up enough empathy to at least understand why anyone else might not feel comfortable coming forward right away...even if they didn't have it as "bad" as you did.
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